Business Insider reports that some Amazon employees have noticed an increasing number of colleagues are leaving the company over its strict return-to-office mandate.
Amazon’s strict return-to-office policy is pushing more employees into quitting::undefined
Yes. Being fired means almost nothing nowadays. Worst case scenario, they fire you with cause so you can’t collect unemployment. That puts you in the exact same situation as quitting. Once you decide you want to quit, just do the bare minimum while you job search.
Once you decide you want to quit, just do the bare minimum while you job search.
I actually work as keenly as possible. I really strive to leave a wound that’ll sting long after I’v— uh, I mean I really strive to leave a good impression during the (for me) year-long process of finding a good next job. For my peers, they’re going to need my work to be super up-to-date because leaving them a shit-fire is a bit of a dick move and I respect my peers a lot.
That puts you in the exact same situation as quitting.
Not if it’s a constructive dismissal, like them forcing you back into the office when you’re a remote employee. Well, depending on where you live of course.
If my workplace were to rescind the work from home stuff, I’d refuse to go to office and split my time between doing my actual job and shopping around for a new workplace.
I think that’s completely fair. I was hired on the basis that it’d be a full remote position, with the occasional travel (like once a year, if that). If they randomly decided to have me go twice a month, I’d probably look around too.
It’d mean that twice a month I’d have to spend 4 hours commuting, hopefully on company time, as well as find someone who could sit my dog for the day. Honestly would like to have the work pay for that too.
Yeah, until feasible, stay there. Do the absolute minimum. They want you to quit, since it makes it easier for them to avoid workers’ rights legislation
Quite the opposite, stock prices generally soar after layoffs.
The severance packages show up as a line item on the quarterly report though, so if you can have some people quit then that can also be a good thing in the eyes of the executives.
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but unfortunately the stock price soared at amzn after layoffs. Same thing happened at my old company. Only thing the market sees is the bottom line.
Also, the people quitting are the ones with a strong enough resume to get hired elsewhere.
Quiet quitting is an excellent option if you don’t care what your next job is, but the fully remote options are all getting filled quickly, and simply waiting to get fired just means you’ll be job hunting later in a potentially worse market, and going back to the office anyway.
Better to move up and out than just wait to be fired, in my opinion.
Except life’s too short as it is. Martyrs are forgotten. Just go, get a better job, don’t look back.
9 years and 2 days ago I clocked out of my job on a Friday, caught a plane, clocked in a new job 3000mi away on Monday. I was already working to secure the wages while my wife was showing the house.
Refuse and make them fire you if they care that much.
Wouldn’t this still impact one’s ability to collect unemployment? In some states at least, I believe there’s a distinction between employees fired with cause versus without cause, although I admit I’m no expert on this subject.
EDIT: This article states that unemployment kicks in if the employee lost their job through no fault of their own or quit for “good cause.”
This other article states that depending on the circumstances and the state you worked in, you may be able to collect unemployment if you are fired from your job. Whether you can collect unemployment depends on the circumstances of why your employment was terminated.
Good luck arguing for refusal to return to office as a “good cause!”
If it was part of the initial work agreement that it would be remote then almost certainly it would count.
A rapid shift in job responsibilities or expectations (such as commuting two hours a day vs. 0) can be considered as “Constructive dismissal”
Even if it wasn’t part of the original hiring agreement, if it’s been that way for years or you have direct emails stating it’s fully remote from now on you likely have a good case.
Think back to the pre-COVID days. If management told you that your office was closing, and that you now had to report to a different office an hour away, would you be so dismissive?
This is pretty well established as Constructive Dismissal - a material change in work conditions that makes continued employment unbearable. Depending on the details, this could be seen as a layoff (if they close the office in Texas and tell you there’s a job waiting for you in Florida, that counts as a layoff)
That’s the point…
Layoffs and firings hurt stock price and needs unemployment checks.
So they make it as shitty as possible, hoping people quit instead.
Never quit your job over shit like this. Refuse and make them fire you if they care that much.
You might even get a class action for unlawful termination later, we need to start treating corporations like how they treat people.
Never quit when a company intentionally makes your life shitty?
Yes. Being fired means almost nothing nowadays. Worst case scenario, they fire you with cause so you can’t collect unemployment. That puts you in the exact same situation as quitting. Once you decide you want to quit, just do the bare minimum while you job search.
Quiet quitting.
That term makes my teeth hurt. There’s nothing “quitting” about simply performing the agreed work at the agreed wage.
Corporate attempts to phrase this as some kind of theft are disgusting.
I actually work as keenly as possible. I really strive to leave a wound that’ll sting long after I’v— uh, I mean I really strive to leave a good impression during the (for me) year-long process of finding a good next job. For my peers, they’re going to need my work to be super up-to-date because leaving them a shit-fire is a bit of a dick move and I respect my peers a lot.
Not if it’s a constructive dismissal, like them forcing you back into the office when you’re a remote employee. Well, depending on where you live of course.
If my workplace were to rescind the work from home stuff, I’d refuse to go to office and split my time between doing my actual job and shopping around for a new workplace.
That’s what I did and they only wanted us back two days a month. Even did the interviews on company time.
I think that’s completely fair. I was hired on the basis that it’d be a full remote position, with the occasional travel (like once a year, if that). If they randomly decided to have me go twice a month, I’d probably look around too.
It’d mean that twice a month I’d have to spend 4 hours commuting, hopefully on company time, as well as find someone who could sit my dog for the day. Honestly would like to have the work pay for that too.
Yeah, until feasible, stay there. Do the absolute minimum. They want you to quit, since it makes it easier for them to avoid workers’ rights legislation
Quite the opposite, stock prices generally soar after layoffs.
The severance packages show up as a line item on the quarterly report though, so if you can have some people quit then that can also be a good thing in the eyes of the executives.
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but unfortunately the stock price soared at amzn after layoffs. Same thing happened at my old company. Only thing the market sees is the bottom line.
Also, the people quitting are the ones with a strong enough resume to get hired elsewhere.
Quiet quitting is an excellent option if you don’t care what your next job is, but the fully remote options are all getting filled quickly, and simply waiting to get fired just means you’ll be job hunting later in a potentially worse market, and going back to the office anyway.
Better to move up and out than just wait to be fired, in my opinion.
Stock prices are really not correlative. If the C-suite are chasing that high, you should go while you still can.
Strong disagree. It’s a lot easier to find a job when you have a job.
Except life’s too short as it is. Martyrs are forgotten. Just go, get a better job, don’t look back.
9 years and 2 days ago I clocked out of my job on a Friday, caught a plane, clocked in a new job 3000mi away on Monday. I was already working to secure the wages while my wife was showing the house.
Wouldn’t this still impact one’s ability to collect unemployment? In some states at least, I believe there’s a distinction between employees fired with cause versus without cause, although I admit I’m no expert on this subject.
EDIT: This article states that unemployment kicks in if the employee lost their job through no fault of their own or quit for “good cause.”
This other article states that depending on the circumstances and the state you worked in, you may be able to collect unemployment if you are fired from your job. Whether you can collect unemployment depends on the circumstances of why your employment was terminated.
Good luck arguing for refusal to return to office as a “good cause!”
If it was part of the initial work agreement that it would be remote then almost certainly it would count.
A rapid shift in job responsibilities or expectations (such as commuting two hours a day vs. 0) can be considered as “Constructive dismissal”
Even if it wasn’t part of the original hiring agreement, if it’s been that way for years or you have direct emails stating it’s fully remote from now on you likely have a good case.
Think back to the pre-COVID days. If management told you that your office was closing, and that you now had to report to a different office an hour away, would you be so dismissive?
This is pretty well established as Constructive Dismissal - a material change in work conditions that makes continued employment unbearable. Depending on the details, this could be seen as a layoff (if they close the office in Texas and tell you there’s a job waiting for you in Florida, that counts as a layoff)