I’m sure the GOP will be happy to vote for this one in the house. They were perfectly fine with issuing much more for covid PPP loans and forgiving the loans completely. It’s so sad we have such a divided nation. We need to get rid of our first-past-the-post voting system, or it will be like this indefinitely.
With corporations owning politicians, an education crisis, a housing crisis, and the entire country hating eachother it doesn’t matter what voting system you tack on. We need some sort of reboot as a country on many levels.
Removed by mod
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
If you live in a state that hasn’t joined yet, you can take action today!
Don’t suggest such an unworkable solution. People just need to vote. That’s the first step.
It’s about systemic incentives, blindly hoping for a change in people’s behaviour is foolish at best. First past the post causes the same issues in every country it still exists today, it clear to see. That’s why most of Europe doesn’t use it, and hasn’t for a long time too. The US has an outdated democracy and we all wish you good luck in convincing others to update it.
Most people still believe that the political process is working when there is zero signs to show that it is does. It is captured and voting for either side is legitimizing their regime.
Even small gains save lives, and pretending the Democrats are identical to Republicans is disingenuous at best. Don’t be immature, vote. Direct action can happen in parallel, but wasting your influence only enables your enemies. You’d be foolish to think otherwise, and waste time arguing against your own interest.
I don’t believe the GOP would ever let this pass but this would help considerably towards getting out of debt, although slowly. The student debt loan relief would have been even better but obviously that didn’t happen.
Supreme court says no.
I’m all for making college less expensive for students but, as good as this sounds, I think we need to enact some controls on the price of school before measures like this will be helpful. If credit becomes cheaper for borrowers, universities will just raise their prices. The economics are in the universities’ favor here and they’d happily absorb more money to grow their administration.
It seems like getting some controls in place might be doable if democrats were to push for the. Republicans might be game to regulate the cost of university attendance since it would reduce the flow of money to the evil leftist universities, but maybe they’d see that as anti-capitalist?
The core problem is one you’ve narrowed in on: There’s a positive feedback loop between schools and lenders to increase costs forever.
Student loan debt is (almost) impossible to discharge in bankruptcy. That shit will follow the student for the rest of their life, until it’s paid off or the student dies. This is accomplished by allowing private lenders to make “federally-backed” loans, in which there is a quasi-private lender who is, by statute, able to collect interest on the loan, but has almost no risk because, should the student fail to pay, the federal government steps in, pays off the lender, and assumes the debt, at which point, the student still has to pay, but the lender got their money back, plus whatever interest the student had paid until that point.
I mean, if you were in the student loan business, why wouldn’t you lend as much as possible? It’s literally free, guaranteed revenue for decades. You’d be stupid not to enter this almost zero-risk business.
Meanwhile, while lenders want to lend as much as possible, they can’t hand out insane loans for education if education costs little. Schools notice that students have no problem paying large sums of money, so… they increase tuition, books, add fees, and suddenly, schools are bumping up against what students’ would be able to borrow, so those lenders are more than happy to accept more risk-free revenue in the future in exchange for a pittance now, and suddenly, we have a feedback loop that spirals ever-upwards.
The absolutely quickest way to solve the problem is unwind the various bankrupcy laws that makde student loans essentially bankruptcy-proof. Lenders should have to do things like credit-worthiness checks on students.
The best way is to simply provide a free college education for every student that wants one, just like we do a high school education. The entire idea that you should have to assume a crapton of debt just to learn something is insane. The “student loan industry” shouldn’t exist.
Yeah, you have this right. If we do undo the bankruptcy laws, though, we do still need to do something to support students who don’t qualify for credit. Otherwise we will be making a university education even more difficult for less privileged people to attain.
We would probably need to expand grant programs to compensate for the extra barrier.
Yeah, I’m one of those. If credit checks like that were instituted there is absolutely zero chance I could have enrolled. My bank wouldn’t give me 500 dollars to get my transmission fixed, much less the tens of thousands I need for a bachelor’s. The solution is the nationalization of education. Fuck this nonsense. Public education from K-post doc. Let the rich have their Harvards and whatever, but we need good state schools and a new crop of federal colleges popping up all over rhe country, in addition to community colleges. For free. No questions asked. Do you make absolutely no money whatsoever? Study here. Are you literally Jeff Bezos? Who cares. Study here.
We also need to get back to the way things were a century ago or more, where students could just decide they wanted to know a thing, and then go learn that thing. No need to declare a major, or even enroll for a degree. Just go learn the things you want to learn. Education should be it’s own reward, even if we also need it for other things. I’m not saying do away with degrees, just make it possible for people to audit classes, or use the resources of their local, public, universities.
You’re absolutely right; only unwinding the bankruptcy stuff is problematic. It’s a temporary measure to stop the spiraling upward costs and make lenders stop lending so much. And yeah, that has an almost immediate impact on people who need lending to go to school. Fixing bankruptcy needs to be married to some solution that makes schooling free for anyone that wants it. There’s plenty of examples out there to model a solution after, it’s not a novel idea.
In a world where a student can attend a public university for free, or hopefully pass a credit check to get into to Harvard, I’m okay with that. In fact, in such a world, I would love to see that college degrees come with an accreditation from both the institution (“Harvard”) and the lender, demonstrating loan repayment is complete and/or in good standing, to specifically address the case people were so fearful of in the 70s – someone takes out a loan, graduates, and immediately declares bankruptcy, “cheating” their way to a college degree for free.
In this fantasy world I’ve constructed, by the way, I also want a flying horse, and my dick is like 12 inches long, and I’m shredded but never have to go to the gym and can eat corn dogs all day long.
The US can look at how other countries, that don’t outright provide free education, do it instead of reinventing the wheel.
Getting rid of the discharge protection is only a small part of it.
It’s more important to set a legal maximum for college tuition for accredited institutions.
Then make any subsidies and funds contingent being accredited.
Lastly make federal loans contingent on enrollment to accredited institutions, with the additional benefit of being able to cap the loan amount at a level correlated to the legal maximum tuition (not to be confused with setting at the tuition level because living expenses need to be taken into account as well).
Make the interest rate sub 1%, because the government shouldn’t profit off of you as it is a service and do away with private middle men that administer the loans, instead establishing a special loan administration agency.
This will have as effect that institutions either get in line or lose all government funds and a significant portion of enrollments.
If you then also manage to uphold a uniform quality level that you regularly inspect at the accredited institutions, you’ll end up with a clear, affordable choice of quality education v. unknown quality education that may or may not be a huge waste of non-publicly provided money.
ETA:
You can even take it a step further and follow more examples from abroad in terms of acceptance.
Where you aim to get to a situation that everyone that applies with the pre-requisite prior education credentials, gets accepted.The way this is often done abroad is with a centralized application process managed by the government, in which you indicate your top 3 preferred colleges, the portal verifies your prior education (as it’s centrally registered) and then enrolls you in order of preference.
For some studies, like law school, med school and psychology they’ll have more applicants than available spots, and in those cases it’s decided by lottery with slightly weighted chances based on your grade average.
The end result is that the vast majority of people automatically get accepted and the ones that don’t get in via the lottery are almost guaranteed to be placed the following year.This solves the whole minority/legacy/etc. acceptance debacle, makes applying for schools less like applying for a job with writing essays and stuffing your resume with a bunch of extracurriculars and in the process makes the accredited institutions even more attractive compared to the potential hold outs that keep doing things the old fashioned way.
While this sounds good, it’s never going to pass. The rich make too much money from the interest.
Next comes the languishing phase, followed by the ineffectual defense, capped off with a bipartisan veto.
“Both sides” at its finest.
They’ll wait until after the election to veto it.
Please let this pass and kick in after I get my grad school loans… haha.
I feel like Universities are like spinning disks in a computer their time is not long for this world.
I don’t goto libraries for basic research. Sure libraries still server a purpose but I think covid taunt us we don’t need to shove a bunch of kids in a room to learn especially at the college level. Sure dedicated schools should still exist for doctors and engineers. But if you just want to learn about things we have the internet. Certifications / Bar exams could replace degrees for many professions.
As a software engineer my degree didn’t mean much after my first job. Hell when I moved to California I was 1 of two people on the entire team that had a degree. The other guy had an english degree. Most everyone was sell taught.
Just seems university schooling is wildly expensive for what we as a society get out of it. You have tons of people with degrees working minimum wage jobs unrelated to their field of study. They were sold a lie that if they got a degree regardless of what it was in they would make tons of money.
So why would anyone ever pay it back?
Well, you could do interest free with penalties for not making minimum payments.
But also, effectively canceling student loans may be the whole point
Want to buy a house? Or make most major life financial decisions involving loans? You’ll pay it off to the best of your ability. Even if your student loan payment is a couple hundred bucks a month, lenders look at the entire principal and weight it heavily against you—even with 7 years of perfect payments.
But the real question you should ask is: why do we want normal people to pay these particular loans back when it is a fact that the government crafts policies to force people into higher education in order to secure our economy? For all the bluster with Gen Z somewhat dodging degrees, the fact remains that higher education remains a requirement for the future strength of all of us.
It should be gratis just like primary education is. It’s a public good. Cut the cost of getting these degrees and suddenly you don’t have people requiring incredibly high salaries in order to just pay the interest.
To improve their credit score.
