The price seems pretty good. I don’t really know much about mini PCs. Do you think there is a better alternative?
Update: ok, not price efficient. Noted 👍
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Main problem is, ram isn’t upgradable on recent Apple tech, and you’ll need ram for containers, if you’re gonna host it to the CPU limit, if not, then even more so, brand new intel n100 mini pc for 100-150$ is gonna do wonders for you in self hosting field, what I’m saying is, if your MAIN goal is self hosting, then Mac is not optimal, i mean, you can buy Mac mini for your daily tasks and intel n100 mini pc for pocket change you’ll have left after buying Mac, and host your projects on intel one while using Mac yourself
If you just want a server with a very small footprint and good specs there are far better options. If you like using macOS and will occaionally use it like a desktop while also having some hosted services running in VM full time. Then yeah the minis are great little systems and fairly indestructable. If i went back to daily driving macOS outside work, i’d just buy a mini. But i’d only pay out for a mini if i’m actually gonna use macOS.
You can get a Ryzen mini PC for less than $200. Depends on what is worth to you in cost.
What’s great about Mac minis is that they’re extremely power efficient since they’re ARM machines, so if you live somewhere like in Europe where power is expensive, it can save you a lot of money. They’re usually completely silent too.
Depending on their needs, I’d suggest OP to get a used M1 Mac mini, they’re great value for money.
You may want to check your specs again. The Ryzen APUs are very power efficient and run the same stretch as M3 (reported): 15W-45W
Though the more realistic at the wall measurements of the 2023 Mac Minis pretty much seem to have it pegged at a solid 15W-25W min under normal service workloads. The reported “idle” measurements of the M* chips being at 6W are literally just saying “if it has power”, and unrealistic considering you can’t even run them without a the GPU being engaged somewhat without a fully headless software configuration.
I would disagree with idle power not being important for a home server. Most of the time, your system will be doing very little and wait for something to happen. I also don’t think a typical server has a display attached. Wolfang explains this quite well: https://youtu.be/Ppo6C_JhDHM?t=94&si=zyjEKNX8yA51uNSf
I’m not saying idle power is unimportant. I’m saying the M-Class chips can’t ever go idle with a minimal set of features NOT being engaged, because they’re going to be more engaged in general vs other chips that can run truly headless. macOS doesn’t allow for that.
I don’t have one (and I don’t want one), but Anandtech measured the M1 version at 4.2W in idle. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested I think you can also get that from other Mini PCs (e.g. NUCs).
Cool, so the version from many years ago related to OP’s question…how?
It’s an Apple Silicon Mac Mini. Do you have a particular reason to think the new one is less efficient?
Yup. My old 1st gen Ryzen desktop system isn’t particularly power efficient, but it idles <50W (I think closer to 25W, but I haven’t measured for a while). And that’s a desktop class chip from 7 years ago with two HDDs and a discrete GPU and PCIe wifi card, so it’s not winning any awards for efficiency. Even at that, it’s barely a blip on my power bill.
An AMD or Intel laptop-class chip should be able to get to 10W or so idle, and not spike too much with basic tasks. And those can be had for $200-300, less if you’re okay with older chips. Run Linux headless and it’ll likely stay below 15W at the wall most of the time.
Pretty much exact. Lots of reviews to back that up without me spouting about it.
What’s great about Mac minis is that they’re extremely power efficient since they’re ARM machines, so if you live somewhere like in Europe where power is expensive, it can save you a lot of money.
I want to see numbers. How much is “a lot of money”?
I don’t have a Mac Mini, but for always-on systems, the idle power consumption can become quite significant.
- Gaming PCs can consume up to 100W (876 kWh / year).
- My AMD B650 NAS consumes about 17W in idle (150 kWh / year).
- A NUC / Mac Mini can idle as low as 5W (44 kWh / year).
If you pay 0.30$/kWh, running your old 100W gaming PC all the time would cost you 263$ per year. My NAS is 45$ per year…
It also depends on what you need/want from the machine. The Mac Mini doesn’t have any HDDs and can’t run a regular Linux distro, for example.
Would the Mac Mini actually idle at that wattage if it’s open for connections? I doubt it, it’s probably more like 10W, which is generally the range for those smaller AMD MiniPCs or NUCs.
If it’s 10W, that’s a $20 savings from your NAS w/ a desktop CPU (and probably a discrete GPU, unless it’s running an APU). I can get 4% easily on savings, so I’d only need a $500 savings vs the Mac Mini to recoup that difference every year ($500 * 4% = $20). So if you already have an old PC, use that instead of buying a Mac Mini, and you also won’t have to fight macOS to do what you want.
I do think it can achieve that while waiting for network packets (see e.g. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested).
But in terms of money savings it would rarely make sense, as you need to make it back during the time you run the system. If we assume 6 years lifetime then it would only make sense to pay $120 more. But yes, I’d also go for a system that runs regular Linux :)
I’m no lab scientist but when I switched from a hackintosh to an M1 Mac mini a few years ago, my total electricity consumption went down by around 15-20%. This can mean a lot on the long run if you’re tight on budget.
Cheap in Germany for example nowadays is 0,20 EUR / KWh + 15 EUR / month base fee. Most people have more expensive contracts though, 0,30 EUR / KWh and more
Fellow EU here. Those prices are crazy. My peak price is 0.18, while the valley is 0.08.
where is that in the EU…South-East parts?
If you’re hosting plex or jellyfin I’d recommend an old Intel processor with quicksync. I paid like 200 for my pc on ebay gutted it and put it in a bigger case for more hard drives. Runs 4k videos like a champ with no GPU installed.
I mean, it would work, but you would be better off power-wise, price-wise, and performance-wise, going with a used office PC such as Optiplex.
I’d recommend against it. Apple’s software ecosystem isn’t as friendly for self hosting anything, storage is difficult to add, ram impossible, and you’ll be beholden to macOS running things inside containers until the good folks at Asahi or some other coummity startup add partial linux support.
And yes, I’ve tried this route. I ran an m1 mac mini as a home server for a while (running jellyfin and some other containers). It pretty consistently ran into software bugs (less maintained than x64 software) and every time I wanted to do an update instead of sudo whateveryourdistroships update, and a reboot, it was an entire process involving an apple account, logging into the bare metal device, and then finally running their 15-60 minute long update. Perfectly fine and acceptable for home computing, but not exactly a good experience when you’re hosting a service.
It doesn’t matter… You will have to use virtual box or docker
I will. I was asking from CPU power and price perspective though.
Sorry I’m not familiar with Mac specs
i have one running debian as a secondary backup to run just smart home stuff and pi-hole. you can set it up to start back up after power failure. was like $50 used. there’s basically no point in it being a mac rather than an old lenovo machine, but it sure is cute looking.
spoiler
> $ neofetch _,met$$$$$gg. ,g$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$P. ----------- ,g$$P" """Y$$.". OS: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) x86_64 ,$$P' `$$$. Host: Macmini7,1 1.0 ',$$P ,ggs. `$$b: Kernel: 6.1.0-25-amd64 `d$$' ,$P"' . $$$ Uptime: 1 day, 3 hours, 35 mins $$P d$' , $$P Packages: 2708 (dpkg) $$: $$. - ,d$$' Shell: zsh 5.9 $$; Y$b._ _,d$P' Terminal: /dev/pts/0 Y$$. `.`"Y$$$$P"' CPU: Intel i5-4260U (4) @ 2.700GHz `$$b "-.__ GPU: Intel Haswell-ULT `Y$$ Memory: 687MiB / 3791MiB `Y$$. `$$b. `Y$$b. `"Y$b._ `"""Not worth having to deal with Apple’s bullshit “operating system”.
If it’s an older x86 model, just install Linux on it.
You can install Linux on ARM-based Macs too:
https://asahilinux.org/
[email protected]How well does that work though? My understanding is that there are still quite a few caveats, but it’s been a while since I actually looked into it.
Everything works except Thunderbolt/USB4 and Video output via USB-C
I wouldn’t use it as a NAS if you plan to use NVMe SSDs for fast storage (since you can’t connect them via USB4), but if you only plan on using SATA SSDs or mechanical drives, USB 3 should be fine. Other than that, everything you would need in a server is there and works flawlessly.
It wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’ll probably do the job. Depends on what you want to do with it. There’s fewer people choosing this path, which means that when things go wrong, you’ll have fewer sources of information to help.
Some old Dell office PC with a good amount of RAM and an SSD would be just as well.
Most answers here are missing the benefits of a home Mac running 24/7 if you’re already part of the Apple ecosystem. For example, you can have it sync all your iCloud data (documents, photos, iTunes content) and back them up locally, then elsewhere outside of Apple’s ecosystem. You can also have it act as a local CDN for OS updates, whereby it will cache OS downloads locally so any subsequent updates will be super quick.
On the downside, I found native Docker on macOS kinda sucked, and just installed Ubuntu on my 2012 Mac Mini (now running Proxmox for funsies), but I have an old iMac to do the caching. You could probably virtualize and get both benefits, and I am considering moving to a new M4 mini for the power savings and sheer speed. That M4 Pro chip has absolutely incredible Geekbench numbers while sipping power.
If the price is right for you, go for it. You will run containers and or VMs, so doesn’t really matter what your bare metal is.
I would choose something where I can install Linux easily and nice and I am sure at the Mac mini price point you can build yourself an assembled mini-pc with beefer specs, but indeed it’s more work and hassle.
YMMV
I switched all my server stuff to my m1 Mac mini because previously I was trying to host everything off my truenas scale NAS with truecharts. Since truecharts isn’t really an option for future truenas updates and I already had an m1 Mac mini I bought secondhand, I figured it’d work pretty well for docker containers, which it does. And it’s a ton more easy for me to troubleshoot than K8s.
If you’re planning on running containers, tbh I would not. The required virtualization layer (due to macOS being BSD-based) is going to make containers WAY less efficient. You’re better off with a system you can easily slap proxmox (or whatever distro floats your boat) on.
I bought a M1 Mac Mini second-hand and it’s great for home server purposes. Like others have said, you’ll be using containers a bunch, so bare metal doesn’t matter quite as much as it used to. They’re power efficient and offer good performance. If you’re in the Apple ecosystem, there’s a bunch of other benefits to having a Mac set up as a server (e.g. content caching for updates/iCloud content).
At the ends of the day, it’s about what you’re comfortable working on. My daily driver is a MacBook Pro. I have a BeeLink S12 Pro that runs most of my self hosted stuff, and a Synology that runs a couple things. I also have an HP Z440 as a test bed box (powered off unless I’m working on something). I’m comfortable working with Linux and power draw was important for me in setting up my always-on server (my power bill is already high).
The only minor concern I would have with a mini is you’re limiting your support base. This isn’t to say there’s no support, there’s just less. Most self hosted are using something like a unraid, a beelink, or an old micro Dell/HP/Lenovo. Because of that, there’s a ton of stuff out there about getting various services running on these setups. The M-based mini environment is going to be a little more unique.
