Far simpler than whateveryone else is saying. The best way to rally humans to your side is to give them a common enemy. So conservative politicians picked enemies that are small in number and told everyone how they are to blame for all that is wrong in the world.
Times are hard? Our existing economic systems are perfect. It’s [insert minority here] who caused this. Quick, give me all the power so I can stop them.
They’re going to use the bathroom and play sports. KILL THEM ALL!
Hating gays isn’t cool anymore and will get backlash even from conservatives.
Trans people are the new gays in this sense
I would love for you to be right. If you’re in the US, though, voter data doesn’t seem to support that.
It would be amazing to live in a country where half the populace agreed that my son has the right to simply exist in peace but I don’t think we do anymore.
That’s a good point. And political movements like trans exclusionary LGB are there to piggy back off of.
Homophobia is illegal in Romania
That doesnt stop every single person i know that isnt from the capital be openly homophobic
I figure racism will stick around long after transphobia is out of style.
Because no middle class white kid ever sat their parents down and said “mom, dad… I’m black”
I’m going to get all sorts of fun responses for trying to empathize with those with whom I disagree (instead of just writing “dumb bigots”) but here goes:
First, remember that even gay marriage is fairly new to America, it’s been around for less time than the MCU.
There are a lot of folks who almost have mental whiplash, gay marriage went from illegal to “you could get fired for being vocally uncomfortable about it” in fairly quick order.
Now, to make things even more wild for those folks, mainstream culture is pretty insistent that gender isn’t even a thing anymore. Add in some pretty wild news stories/videos*, worries for their kids and the notion that the Left refuses to say there might be any issues whatsoever and you can kinda see where a backlash could crop up.
- eg: trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc, a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition, some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject etc.
Can we compromise? No trans people in sports and trans people have their own unique prison or cell block and young teens can take puberty blockers and estrogen so they don’t need to try to pay 150,000 in facial feminization plastic surgery at 18 or 19, money of which they can only get quickly from sex work and not going to school? Sound like a good compromise?
mainstream culture
Talk to any random person on the street and they don’t fucking care about identity politics.
Extremists are not the mainstream no matter how much they shout about it.
There’s a reason conservatives campaign against “woke.” And most conservatives I know socially called the election a win against woke, even if they couldn’t exactly name a woke policy that Harris proposed.
Harris explicitly didn’t play identity politics, and I applaud her for it. I think the left is starting to realise even people who agree with them dislike being told what to think … one can dream right.
I like your dream and fully agree on Harris.
Sadly (though I am admittedly a pessimist and would love to be wrong) I think the Left elites/party brass are coming to that realization on identity politics. But I dont think mainstream/cultural Left is and unfortunately, I think Right and centre Right curious voters view the political and cultural Left as the same.
No, most people aren’t going out of their way to hurt trans people, but those loud extremists are creating a negative connotation in some people’s minds. That’s no different from racism.
Extremists on both sides are a problem, so when you say “those loud extremists” a reasonable person would have no idea who you’re talking about. I think you’re correct in either instance, but I doubt that’s what you where going for.
Oh. My bad. I thought a reasonable person would assume I meant the loud extremists that match the topic of this post.
You were doing reasonably well, until you diverted to pure transphobia in the last paragraph
The listing of the news/videos they may have seen?
Not the list, but the way you described them, as if these were things that actually happen…
This is part of the thing. If we on the Left can’t have an honest discussion about things that do happen, then it is incredibly hard for anyone not already “on side” to take us seriously.
trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/09/26/americas-growing-row-over-policies-for-transgender-prisoners “Tremaine Carroll, a transferred inmate serving 25 years to life for violent crimes, was charged with raping two women in ccwf and faces trial soon; Carroll denies the charges. In 2022 an inmate moved to Rikers Island women’s prison in New York received a seven-year sentence for attempted rape.”
This is a tricky issue, trans women in men’s prisons are also at risk. But to straight up deny these things happen and deny the existence of non transphobic concerns, well, that’s hard to take seriously.
a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SJYdXj7Kac&ab_channel=WilsonB9000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Mouncey
Murder was hyperbole, probably inappropriate. But damn, she is just so much bigger than her entire team and everyone on the opposition in all of those clips. (She also dominates in Aussie rules football.)
some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/27/research-into-trans-medicine-has-been-manipulated
The whole article is discomforting and worth reading. But, while WPATH (what is supposed to, and claims to be and independent science based organization) was creating their guidelines: “But an email in October 2020 from WPATH figures, including its incoming president at the time, Walter Bouman, to the working group on guidelines, made clear what sort of science WPATH did (and did not) want published. Research must be “thoroughly scrutinised and reviewed to ensure that publication does not negatively affect the provision of transgender health care in the broadest sense,” it stated. Mr Bouman and one other coauthor of that email have been named to a World Health Organisation advisory board tasked with developing best practices for transgender medicine.”
Again, I’m generally on board with trans rights etc but to say there aren’t issues just makes it that much harder to take us at face value.
This is a tricky issue, trans women in men’s prisons are also at risk
“Also at risk”
The fact that you equate cherry picked single instance anecdotes as comparable to entrenched violence and discrimination against trans folk as being somehow comparable is the part that makes it transphobia.
Murder was hyperbole
It was, yeah. Despite her “murdering” the opposition, from the very article you linked, Australia finished 5th.
There are 7 players on a handball team. She scored 23 goals across 6 games, for an average of just under 4 goals per game (3.83 to be specific).
The total goals scored by Australia in those games was 160, which works out to an average of 3.81 per Australian player across those 6 games. Her “murdering” of her opponents consisted of having a 0.02% higher average than her team mates.
The fact that you parrot lines like “murdering” and look at videos designed to make it look open and shut, whilst not bothering to investigate the reality of the situation is what makes it transphobic.
The whole article is discomforting and worth reading. But, while WPATH (what is supposed to, and claims to be and independent science based organization) was creating their guidelines:
An article posted on the economist, who has Helen Joyce, a vocally transphobic journalist as one of their senior staff. Linking to an article that has been mostly circulated on various transphobic websites, calling out WPATH for being biased and getting in the way of evidence based research? Whilst defending the Cass review, which has been widely called out by many international medical bodies for its own bias and inconsistent approach to evidence.
The fact that you’re worried about WPATH as the real issue here is telling…
You are misunderstanding.
Most reasonable, casual folks, who aren’t up on who Helen Joyce is or other trans poli sco lore, these are all fairly reasonable takes. The Economist is generally regarded as one of the most reputable papers around and for good reason.
I’ve also not presented my beliefs, just “here’s some pretty mainstream concerns.” I made that pretty clear in my opening statement (and pointed out that pretty much this exactly would happen.)
You’ve clearly encountered these arguments before (definitely didn’t watch the video which is fucking sympathetic). I’m not making these arguments.
I’m saying that reasonable people, who read one of the most reputable papers in the world can in fact have reservations on some trans issues. I can disagree with them but it’s not just bigotry.
Yes, they’re designed to seem that way.
Which is why I earlier stated that my issue wasn’t with listing them, but specifically, the way you presented them.
I’ve also not presented my beliefs
You used the word “murdering” to describe a transgender woman playing sports with other women, despite her playing at a level comparable to them.
You absolutely presented your beliefs.
U are literally denying objective reality at best it weakens ur arguments at worse it makes u look like a grifter.
Bruh check out the guys post history, read their comment history, they arent exactly a trans ally
I don’t recall posting about trans anything, can you refresh my memory?
Edit: Oh, it’s you! Are you making this assumption because I disagree with you and condemn the advocating of violence on republicans and democrats?!?
Which I don’t get because they’re all about rape as a jail punishment
This aligns with what I have heard from folks I know in that world. Fear motivated by exaggerating one off and isolated incidents. The information silos in the conservative world (especially news) is frightening.
They have to have somebody to hate so they don’t hate themselves so much.
I don’t think it’s most people. I (choose to) believe that’s a loud minority.
Most of the culture wars bullshit is originating from a tiny but disproportionately noisy number of people.
But then, because their claims are so outrageous, the media picks up onbit and runs with it, without bothering to be proportional to the number of people causing the problem in the format place.
It seems like it’s always projection with these fascists.
They are the ones whose “party” is full of violent sexual predators. They will never bring up the monsters (including their “president”) on their own “team”.
Religion.
There are plenty of atheist transphobes.
Oh god they’re the worst. Their “XY genes is science” crap would fly a lot better if they bothered to learn anything about genetics that went beyond fucking Punnett Squares.
Of course, there is that one high profile atheist who did learn a bunch of Biology, then decided to ditch it because it was incompatible with being the disagreeable fuckwit that he so longed to be.
Richard Dawkins is a huge bin bag full of arses.
They exist, but let’s not act like religion isn’t playing a huge role in the perpetuation of trans hate. If a person says that they dislike trans people, 9/10 times they are going to be religious. A lot of other cases will stem from a person coming from a religious family, or culture, if they aren’t religious themselves.
It’s not a requirement to hate gay and trans people to be an atheist, but it is a requirement to at least act like you do to be a member of many different religious denominations.
I would say that religious institutions allow the congregation of people and thus a congregation of thought into similar things as one another, not that religion as a whole is transphobic or something. Ain’t no need to use the same kinda bigotry you hate to justify saying something so wildly vague as to be useless. Use some more nuanced and complex thoughts please.
I can point to multiple denominations of religious people that literally say that being gay or trans is forbidden, yet I can not find one Atheistic group that does the same. To act like religion doesn’t do it’s part in perpetuating this kind of hate is foolish.
I’m not saying all religion is bad or worthless or anything, just that it definitely contributes to this problem. I’m also not saying that all religions are the same, its mostly just the Abrahamic ones that seem to perpetuate the hate more than others.
Which is a lot more nuanced than the OP reply of “religion”.
Conservatives use fear to manipulate their constituents as their primary means to rally support. A minority scapegoat many of their supporters don’t know in person, like trans people, are easily demonized by politicians and clergy to pretend trans folks are pedophiles and sex assaulters projecting their own party and priest crimes, it’s the same thing they try to do with fear mongering homosexuals as a previous scapegoat to distract and deflect from their awful policy privileging the wealth class and harming poor and middle class people, they need someone to blame for their own awful behavior and choices.
They are just propagandized. In general, it’s so much like racists - they may know trans people and just think they are the exceptions, like them as individuals and still think they hate them as a group. They are intentionally riled up by being forced fed edge cases and disinformation.
Trans people are just people. They aren’t angels who are never criminals and they aren’t degenerates who are always criminal, they are a diverse group like all of us are. But you can bet your ass that whenever a trans person does something criminal it will be blown up so big in conservative media and used to paint them all as criminals. It’s just the right wing media machine.
Cause they were told to.
If I remember correctly uvalde was a trans person, but most of the time its just people using one good thing about themselves to justify being horrible. Think holier-than-thou type shit.
Uvalde shooter was not. https://www.bbc.com/news/61607042
The NYPost has an article about the Nashville shooter. Before she went through with the shooting she texted an old friend about it. The friend got interviewed and for whatever reason the NYPost used a Facebook picture of her all glammed up. It’s really out of place.
It was Nashville, not Uvalde.
Off topic but it’s quite fucked that there are so many of these that we mix them up ooof
You are parroting a lie
edit hey dumbasses, you can look it up for yourselves, the uvalde shooter was not trans and there was never anything real even suggesting that he was
Damn if only I acknowledged somehow that my memory was imperfect and I may be wrong, maybe by saying smth like “if I remember correctly”.
well it’s kind of your responsibility to fact check that kind of thing before repeating it, no? regardless you’re not the one I called a dumbass, it was the clowns downvoting me for stating a fact.
Were I presenting it as a definite fact yes, but I was presenting it as a possible thing that I was pretty sure had happened. Also, I know you weren’t talking about me with the edit I didn’t even look at it while typing my reply.
Edit: misspelled were as we’re, fixed it
They just got the exact shooting wrong, which can happen with the sheer amount of school shootings in the US.
I’m pretty sure they just think it’s icky.
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People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
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It doesn’t conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
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Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
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Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Projection is also a common way for people to deflect blame for societal ills. Religious zealots will ignore and even shield sexual abusers present in their own institutions and divert that animosity to outside groups that make convenient targets. They are ok with the abusers within their walls because they are seeking absolution through religious systems. They are not ok with queer people because they need to scapegoat a group to explain why things don’t seem to be getting better.
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Fear, control, indoctrination, tribalism, double standards, poor mortal character, hypocrisy, and because it ‘makes them feel icky’ and so they have to be loud and obvious about it so that they’re community sides with them and doesn’t suspect that they’re (allegedly) total closet cases.
Nazis do this dumb thing where they go “hey that small and therefore relatively defenseless group (badassness of individuals aside) is the cause of all our problems, let’s kill them to solve everything!”
Surprisingly, it never works.
So they do it again with somebody else, and somebody else, and somebody else, until everybody on earth is killed by nazis or somebody stops them.
As for why anybody is dumb enough to fall for it in the first place…it’s anybody’s guess.
Surprisingly, it never works.
The Holocaust happened and Trump got elected. If those two things don’t count as examples of this hateful strategy working then idk what does.
I think they meant it doesn’t solve any problems because they never were the problem.
