• DarkCloud@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    23
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    11 days ago

    The irony here is that Che Guavara was a medical doctor AND in charge of torture… So that’s kinda similar to United Healthcare.

          • Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            10 days ago

            Ã̷̢̧̡̨̛̳̣̼̗̙̲̼̪̺̤̰͓̦͔̓̎́͋̀̂̑̌̃͊̆͗͑͆̈͊͐̔̀̽̄́͂̕͘͝A̸̡̩̰̯͙̬͈͇̹̲̟̤͔̞͖̘͍̖̳̮͔͓̬͖͖̘̺͕̱̹͇͇͚̖͉͉͓͉̎͆͐̑̏̈́̓̾̿̈́͋̔͗̍̏́͗́̔̈́̀̔̂̆̈́͑͜ͅͅȀ̷̧̛̀̅̀̈́̓̈́͛̎́̄̓̓̓̇̽͝A̵̛͍̝̼͙͎͇̎̎̿͋̊̆̓̈̉̌̋̿̅̆̃̌̽̓̃͛̉̔̏́̇͊́̑̒̒̀͆̿̊͊̄̕͘̚͝͠Ã̸̢̨̛̙̭̦̲͈̙̮̲͕͔͖̣̻̬̤̪̯̣͖̲̮̰͖̖̯̟̘̰̱̺̲̳͆́̔̒̑̔͐̃̓͑͐̈́͆̈̀̇̂̌̾̅̈̏͛́̚A̶̧̨͎͚̤͍̺̟̟͈̥̮̩̺̜̘̗̥͍̼̦͍̥͕̻͙̹͇͖͉̰̫̗̤̳̹̳̐̈́͛̇́̏͋̈̒͌̓̑̎̀͌͗̿̆̚̚͜͝͝Ą̴̨̡͙̰̩̼̖̱͈͚̲̱̱͉͎͖̤̘̤͌̄̐̀̎̾̊̚ͅẢ̷̙͈̳̰͎̦̎̐͌̈͂̏̓̈̽̔̎̌͐̓̀̈́̑̒͌́͠͝Á̵̢̢̢̢͚̟̲̮̗͚̘̰̱͇̝͓̦̜̹̯̠͙͉̫̪̮͈̼͚͈̜̤̺̼͓̗̠̼̼̜̣̈̒̊͛́͋͐̋͐͊̀̈́͝͝ͅẨ̷̧̡͔͖̲̱̻̣ͅA̷̡̢̧̩̘̼̜̝̫͙̞̺͙̖͎̲̱̩̮̦͙̫͉̳̪͇̯̰̜̭̝̐͑̋̓͒̋̔̂̇̐́́͊͐́͗̑̀̓̎̏̏̓͑͑͂͐͆́̀͘̕̚͘͘̚͜͜͝ ̴̡̟̱̠̪̮͕̥̖̎̎͗̈́̀͋͛̓̀̓̉̿̿̿̐͊̾̈́̌̒̐͆͌̐̇͑̀͐̍̅̏͘͘͠ͅF̸̛̛͚̯̯̩͇̯̲̞̙̃͐̂̏́̿̀͐̓̂̅̒̓͊͆͊̈̈͂͛̀̋̑̓́̈́̂̌͆͑͊̀͂̕̚͘R̸̳̱̫̹̭͎̥͔͍̳̐̇̆̈́̌̈̽͜ͅE̶̡̧̨̨̧̖͓͚̟̼͍̙̯͈͍̮͍͓̤̥̖̱̝͖̮̩̤̟̟̹̘̜͙̫͍͓̥̪̙̝͖̓͒́̎͛̏̑̽̈̊̿̈̌͐̀̓͒̃͘̕Ņ̵̟̘̱̪̥̹͚̣͖͙̽̎̾̽̇̒̃͌ͅÇ̴̧̝̗͚͉̦̲͕̦̝̙̘̩̰̞̪̞̱͈͍̖͔̰̖̺͙͉̦͔͓͓̎̓̆̔̃̈̑̄̃̓͌̎̈́̋̑̈́̈́̉͂̏͊͒̾̃̕H̴͖͎̘̟̪̥͚͇̬̥̠͔̠̾̌͝ ̷̧̛̛̛͕̝̰̲̼̥̯̻̲̠̞͉̝̦̬̱̞̖̦̦̦̠͚͍͋́͂͒̓́̑̃́̋̅̄̅͊̾̀̀̍̈́̀̍́̈́̅̂̓̃̃̕̕͜͝͝Á̴̧̨̢̗̯͍̗͎̜̫̰̱̮̟͖̝͙̮̜̮̜̞̎̈͑̏̇̅̃̋̄͒̍͌͊͆Ả̵̡͎̳̱̥̬̭̜̩̥̪̤͎͇̱̦̖̳̫͒̈́͛̍͂͋̅̌̒̉͐̀̕̚͘͜͜͝͠͠Ȁ̷̧̛̗͈̮̤͓̮͚̠̯̝̈́͒̏̈́́̈́͋̑͋̌̈́̏̍͒̐͌̓͌́͐́̾͗̇̉͑̐̈̒̈́̈́̕͘͝͝͠͝A̴͔̮̩͛À̴̡̨̧̩̥̜̰͈͇̱̝̖̰̜̞͉̯̪̩̱̹͍͓͎̟̳̹̟͓̹̝͈̪̗̙̼͚̙͑͒̂̊̊̎̍͑̄͒̉̉̀͑͌͋̅̈͘̕̕͝Ạ̶̢̛̛̛͔̘̖̈̆̌̄̅̀̋̏̀͐̓̅̉̈́͐̽̆͋͑̂͒̇̓͂͌̏̽͒̌̇̅̚̕͠Ä̴̢̨̨̨̨̢̛͕̞̪̱͔̘̝̖͖͎̙͍̦̺͙͓͈͓͚͉̟̲̥̬̠̩̯͔͎̱̘͕̼́̄̊̌̏̈́̀̅̄̓̑̕͜͜͜͝

  • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    11 days ago

    I don’t like associations here…

    We don’t know if Luigi actually the the job, he is now a hero either way but I don’t buy fake news and pig narratives here.

    They have provided nothing to prove he pulled the trigger.

    Also, either way Luigi is martyr now, he is the saint protector of the sick. Start acting like it. This only works if working class is united in demanding the changes while signaling to the parasite class that they will NOT get any rest until reforms happen.

    #healthreform and #freeluigi until both happen.

  • GHiLA@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    10 days ago

    attempting to agree with Che while reading wikipedia

    "Yes, no, yes, hell no, FUCK NO, NO FUCKING WAY, EVER, Oh, cool! Hell no!*

    I’ve never read about a person that I so much agreed with yet… disagreed with at the same time.

  • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    18
    ·
    11 days ago

    Luigi is a rich libertarian techbro bordering on AI cultist. he likes Thiel and Musk, he thinks that human immortality is feasible, that AI will outsmart us all real soon, and bought in in a bunch of other tpot/longtermist/ea horseshit hook line and sinker. he also only started caring about state of healthcare industry when it touched him personally. he’s not leftist in any useful meaning of this word

    this is his twitter https://xcancel.com/PepMangione these are his takes: https://xcancel.com/PepMangione/status/1780863519677940189#m https://xcancel.com/PepMangione/status/1750041444239434013#m https://xcancel.com/PepMangione/status/1600875886727016449#m this one is pinned tweet

      • 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 days ago

        i dunno, he doesn’t seem as someone who was “against the system”. We are not flowing liquids that intermingle with each other, sometimes we have to use labels. anyways, either A) this twitter was a front and he was bullshitting or B)He may of “snapped” and changed his worldview on things.

        • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          10 days ago

          Purity tests like this is also what’s landed us in this divided position. He did something good even if he’s flawed, and that’s enough.

          • 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            10 days ago

            I’m not saying that that we are divided, just that we don’t know the full picture of luigi yet. If some one stabbed you in the back, then helped you stab some one else in the back, would you trust that person not to stab you in the back again? its not division, its a simple level of trust that needs to be built

            • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              10 days ago

              Then we were talking about two different issues.

              With that said, I’d absolutely trust my life in the hands of Luigi over the hands of Brian Thompson.

              • 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                10 days ago

                I wouldn’t trust either until i learn more about luigi, but yes if i was put in a room with a gun to my head it would be luigi.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      11 days ago

      he also only started caring about state of healthcare industry when it touched him personally.

      So just like about 2/3’s of humanity, huh?

      Further, Guevara himself has a pretty shitty history with hating on LGBTQ+ for no good fuckin reason, so I’d say it actually fits pretty well. He was a pretty shitty leftist as well. He was also well educated and a physician. Not so different than Mangione, huh?

      Any group which still believes in “strong men” being saviors doesn’t actually believe in things like equality and equity.

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      11 days ago

      I don’t know if recently we switched sides and socialism became equivalent with primitivism. But industrialization and embrace of science a technology was a big part of socialism when it started in the xix century.

      I don’t buy the primitivism take, sorry. It’s sad that people don’t buy pregnant sonic commissions $80 a piece in etsy because some open source AI does a better job for free. But it has nothing to do with socialism or the struggle of the working class.

      I just say that the embrace of primitivism and the reject of progress will lead to conservative and reactionary ideologies, not progress and certainly not socialism. Without job automation working class lives would be miserable, there is not even a chance of socialism without technology.

      • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 days ago

        (literally writing this from lab) i’m not calling him a techbro because i have some kind of disdain for tech workers, i’m calling him a techbro because he’s chasing unviable or harmful ideas or tech from old scifi that his cult (or at least was influenced by ideas typically associated with that cult) adopted as a part of doctrine. things like cryonics, some sketchy supplements that are supposed to give extreme life extension, or AI and quantum computing (because they think simulation = actual thing, and they hope to achieve immortality with AI). you might start to think that i’m batshit crazy just by explaining it, but i assure you it’s them, and these people will be part of american government really soon. start there https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong

        in no place i’m saying “technology bad”, i’m saying there’s plenty of harmful tech being pushed for profit and Luigi went full in in that sector. other than healthcare, that is

    • Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      11 days ago

      Mlk was an adulterer, and ghandi was a hardcore mysoginist.

      Stop picking apart revolutionary minds.

      • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        11 days ago

        zeroth of all, they were figureheads in large organizations. luigi has none of that

        besides, there’s no improvement without criticism

  • nifty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    38
    ·
    11 days ago

    Ugh please stop. The left needs to stop idolizing losers like Luigi or Unabomber.

    The Che comparison is uncalled for because Che actually achieved something other than getting caught.

    As far as US activists go, people who actually achieve something like MLK or Malcolm X or Rosa Parks or Harriet Tubman are 100% more admirable.

    Choose winners! We need people like Musk for these causes, not losers who peter out and die.

    /controversial opinion

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        11 days ago

        I don’t know if that accomplishes anything for people who are suffering from unfair healthcare policies

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          11 days ago

          Okay so that’s a different point.

          Ignorance isn’t a form of evidence. You “not knowing” something has no external meaning.

          • nifty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            11 days ago

            Haha, I’ll ping you again in two years and follow up on the results 🤷‍♀️

        • enkers@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 days ago

          Hypothetically, is there a specific number of billionaires that would have to be executed to have some sort of impact? IMO, even if the rich have just a little incentive not to be the most egregious profiteers, it’ll make some impact.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            10 days ago

            Allow me to tell you the story of the starfish and the beach…

            A young girl was walking along a beach upon which thousands of starfish had been washed up during a terrible storm. When she came to each starfish, she would pick it up, and throw it back into the ocean. People watched her with amusement.

            She had been doing this for some time when a man approached her and said, “Little girl, why are you doing this? Look at this beach! You can’t save all these starfish. You can’t begin to make a difference!”

            The girl seemed crushed, suddenly deflated. But after a few moments, she bent down, picked up another starfish, and hurled it as far as she could into the ocean. Then she looked up at the man and replied,

            “Well, I made a difference for that one!”

            IF you can only do one push-up, thats enough. IF you can only walk around the block, its a start. An avalanche begins with the movement of a single pebble.

            • enkers@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              11 days ago

              I thought we say: we need more flesh for the prison-industrial complex.

              Although, sentence length doesn’t seem to be correlated to deterrence, that doesn’t mean the inevitability of imprisonment isn’t a legitimate deterrent at all. For example, the belief that there’s a high likelihood of getting caught does increase deterrence.

          • L7HM77@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            11 days ago

            Just 3 IMO, because 1 is only an anomaly, 2 is just coincidence.

            But 3 is a pattern, then behavior will adjust.

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        11 days ago

        Maybe I am being a little harsh, but that’s because I just think it’s terrible waste of someone who gave a shit and could have made a difference

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          edit-2
          11 days ago

          You will never be saved by a billionaire. There are no Lenins who can save you who won’t be replaced with Stalins when the time comes. Further, people like Musk already have class solidarity with their own class: the wealthy. They literally have no reason to give a fuck about you or me.

          Real change comes from the bottom up, not the top down, and if you fail to see the can of worms this guy opened with his single act, you’re just oblivious.

          It would be like acting like the assassination of Franz Ferdinand didn’t impact the beginning of World War I.

          All throughout history you can find single instances which, in the end, inspire society to respond and react. We may be in one of those moments and you’re busy telling us there’s nothing changing while we’re busy watching Wanted posters of various healthcare CEOs popping up all over NYC.

          If he makes it to trial, it’s going to open an even bigger can of worms because the question of whether or not our healthcare system is committing social murder on a grand scale will be all over the fucking news, because it’s the centerpiece of this case. It’s literally the motive. …and we’re the only first-world country with a fucking system like this.

          • nifty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            11 days ago

            Okay fair points, perhaps! But I think literally two days ago there was front page post about a billionaire who gave away his fortune and died with something like 200M. I mean, if he made sure his money was being spent wisely then he did a net good for humanity.

            Secondly, I don’t mean to antagonize with these posts, so if anyone’s feelings were hurt, I feel bad.

            • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              edit-2
              11 days ago

              Meh, I don’t know about anyone else, I don’t think you’re being antagonistic, you just have a different perspective. You certainly haven’t hurt my feelings, and I hope I haven’t hurt yours.

              But I think literally two days ago there was front page post about a billionaire who gave away his fortune and died with something like 200M

              The problem with this is that society doesn’t get to choose where his money went, he did. When it comes to the mega-rich, what they think will help people versus what will really help people is often leagues away. Further, a lot of what they leave their money for is stuff that is just part of society in other countries.

              I don’t care about some guy leaving a trust so low-income kids in his state can attend college for cheaper when other countries have higher education just as accessible as basic education and it’s all paid for by taxes already. It even makes the colleges more strict on accepting applicants, because they don’t want to be wasting money on students who will fail.

              Our system says “fuck the student, let them take the risk financially, and if they fail, fuck em, their own fault.”

              Anyway, the point being that those billionaires have “pet projects” and often those pet projects don’t align with what actually helps people… which is why people advocate for higher taxes for the wealthy, so we do have input on where that money goes, instead of letting some billionaire fuckwad decide that only his ideas are good enough. Especially when other countries have shown all you have to fucking do is tax people appropriately, then you don’t have to rely on the good graces of the obscenely rich.

              Musk is a perfect example, actually.

              https://truthout.org/articles/musk-pledged-6b-to-solve-world-hunger-but-gave-it-to-his-own-foundation-instead/

              The WFP took Musk up on his challenge and issued a report just three days later detailing how it could use the funds to feed 42 million of the people across the world who were most at risk of starvation for a year. Of course, the money from Musk, who is notorious for pledging to do good with his money and influence and then backing out, never materialized — not for the WFP, anyway.

              Instead, the money went to the Musk Foundation, which appears to be set up in a way that is similar to other foundations started by billionaires; essentially, the sole purpose of these foundations is allowing the rich to dodge taxes while painting themselves as charitable.

              Oh and after giving himself some money, then he spent $44 billion to buy Twitter instead of helping people.

              It’s mind-blowing to this day that he was given a plan, and because it wasn’t perfect and wouldn’t solve world hunger permanently, he thought spending 7 times the amount to help alleviate world hunger to buy Twitter was more important. His values are out of whack with regular society.

              Further, right now, Musk has been on a tear of attacking the homeless and promoting the idea that homelessness is a moral and ethical failure… not just a lack of cash. He literally hates the poor. He attacked them as “drug addicts” but his addiction to ketamine is fine actually.

              • nifty@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                edit-2
                11 days ago

                I like how you frame your pov, it’s convincing. Esp. this part,

                The problem with this is that society doesn’t get to choose where his money went, he did.

                I agree, and I’ve always been about higher taxes on the wealthy. The point in original point was more that the left needs effective, goal-directed leadership. Not martyrs or short-term solutions.

    • Kowowow@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      11 days ago

      Look I’m not going to say I don’t think musk could be swayed by some head pats and calling him a good boy when he actually does something right but every effective movement has both the face and a bit of violence

      The civil rights movement wasn’t completely non-violent but would have gotten no where without smart and charismatic people explaining why things are so bad others might resolt to violence

      I’m sorry so say but the longer words fail on their own to change things the more “necessary”/inevitable violence becomes

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        11 days ago

        MLK also was very honest about the fact that the non-violence would only work if enough people committed to it.

        A national strike would do a lot more, but the issue is getting everyone on the same page.

        Which is why you had people like Malcolm X and Fred Hampton waiting in the wings, and why the FBI thought it was important to murder Fred Hampton.

    • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 days ago

      Got you tagged as a corpo shill. You are about as useful to democratic thought as sandpaper napkins.