Consumer grade Linux Mint is impossible to differentiate from Windows/MacOS.
Install Firefox. Install Chrome. Install Steam.
Test it out on an old laptop or computer. It’s trivial. Your life will improve.
Linux definitely has a learning curve but its night and day when you actually own your device and get to decide on what software is allowed to run on your computer.
On top of the privacy, the speed of most linux distros is a huge step up from windows. Windows imo is gradually becoming obsolete in the gaming sphere. the amount of work required to properly configure and debloat a system for gaming was zero in my distro. Install gfx driver, gamemode, steam, proton GE, GOverlay, done. I play popular games such as marvel rivals and warframe at decent framerates. (my system is older).
With windows there was so much nonsense to disable that would hugely impact FPS. Sometimes disabling these things would break other features of the OS. And most of the debloat scripts to automate the process are rife with viruses and issues.
Im convinced that by enshitifying the OS it will fool users into thinking their hardware is obsolete and “cant keep up” but im running a 1070ti and a i7 from like 2018 and its still a decent system that does everything i need. until something breaks im not upgrading.
Modern Linux doesn’t have a learning curve for 99% of people. My wife’s 90 year old grandma picked it up with no trouble.
If anything, I think it’s people used to Windows or macOS that don’t want anything to change that tend to hate Linux systems; it’s not exactly Windows/macOS (and doesn’t run exactly the MS Office and Adobe suits) so they hate it.
Adobe’s been starting to get some pushback and people ditching them for FOSS alternatives lately, though. One of the more notable examples is James Lee as he details in his ‘How I Broke up with Adobe’ vid.
Never install Chrome
Fair. Chromium.
Try to play games, learn how to set up wine/proton, discover that none of your games work because you have an old GPU driver, discover that you can’t update it because any time you install a newer driver it hard-locks the system and reboots it in super low-res mode with no driver at all, also your sound dies randomly for no reason that you can discover and trawling reddit for 4 hours comes up with lots of solutions, half of which don’t work and the other half don’t even apply, get frustrated, disable dual-boot and go back to windows.
That’s how my last experience with linux (admittedly that was PopOS not Mint, but) went ~6 months ago. I’m currently building up my frustration-tolerance to give it another try at some point probably with main-line Ubuntu because at least then when I go hunting for solutions to obscure problems the suggested solutions are for that distro. I’m honestly not sure what the difference between Ubuntu and Mint is tho.
This was my experience with it too. Until I realized that the issue everything boils down to is having an old gfx. In particular an old nvidia gfx that has old, closed source driver compatibility only and can’t initialize vulkan. I’ve still stuck to it, it’s arch running on my desktop, because I’ll upgrade hw components eventually. 12 years with a gtx 670 has been quite enough.
I’ve installed fedora workstation 41 on a decommissioned work laptop last week, a 2021 model with an 5700U, and everything just works out of the box. Some obscure game that I’ve been trying to play on my desktop, not even platinum rated on protondb, launched on first attempt without any shenanigans using heroic launcher.
Nvidia, especially older models, are probably just simply not the way to go for gaming on linux.
Try the open source nouveau driver for your older gfx card ive heard compatability is better for older cards
That sucks. My GPU is only a couple years old though, it’s an RTX3070, and I tried using both open and closed source drivers to no avail. The one driver I finally found that worked, for whatever reason, was the v555 (still several versions back from current) server-version closed driver, but I still couldn’t play games.
RTX3060, no issues for me after installing the driver
I’ve had similar issues with Arch Linux for years. The front panel outright refuses to work on Linux, even after modifying a whole bunch of things.
Your average person is more likely to get frustrated that stuff is broken/doesn’t work, and switch back rather than having to alter module configuration files and things like that to fix it.
Dont use freaking Arch if your goal is to get everything to work out of the box?
Fair, though in my experience, Debian and Ubuntu weren’t that much better in that regard.
I just went with Arch, because some of the stuff I wanted to use was much newer on it.
Or, here’s a radical idea, don’t release your freaking distro if not everything works out of the box? :P
Dont buy a project car if you dont want a project. Some people like that shit, but its not for everyone.
Yeah fair enough, but also don’t call it a car if it doesn’t drive.
If you are set on using arch i highly recommend using archinstall or fedora and using the kde plasma or gnome desktop enviorment there are no files to configure and shit just works the desktop is also highly configurable. The only time youd be messing with cfg files would be if you are ricing your system to look like something out of r/unixporn which looks sweet but those people put ALOT of time and effort into it, and their desktop enviorments arent really meant for the average user.
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All linux distrobutions are essentially just linux with prepackaged apps. all apps built for one distro can be run on another. So in essence there is no difference besides the installation process, gui, and package manager. (Probably going to get flamed for this because this is kind of a half truth but for most users this is how id describe it, For ease of understanding)
Right, but there is kind of a way distros do certain things, where they put stuff, how they organize the file structure, etc. So the difference is 'Oh yeah this is an issue with xyz, go to /etc/marf/gooble/whatever and edit this file to say ‘Tuesday’ instead of ‘Marlene’ and there is no /etc/marf/…
I ran into this problem a lot with PopOS in the couple weeks I fiddled with it (and with every single problem in the brief time I tried Bazzite since it containerizes everything), which is why I was thinking of going mainline Ubuntu since most of the solutions I came across to the problems I was having were answering questions posted by Ubuntu users and therefore the answers were tailored to Ubuntu.
Okay i see what your saying. but im an arch user and often use distro specific tutorials from other distros to troubleshoot issues. After a little while youll just subconsiously translate what theyre telling you to do in your distro specificly.
Also resources like reddit and stack overflow are great for you to reach out and get a better understanding. But if youve ever been hit with the “did you read the wiki?” or “they just link a wiki page” I can understand how frustrating it can be. Many linux users are pompus dicks who thinks every user should be a power user. My recommendation is still to reach out for help, ive had great success with the manjaro forum aswell.
Yeah, but I haven’t messed with linux in like ~15 years except for my most recent attempt, so I don’t remember where things ought to be so I don’t know that if someone says to look in /etc/marf that on my distro it might be in /etc/bloop instead or whatever. And yeah, I used reddit/stack overflow (wasn’t it called stack exchange before? shrug), it’s just like I said I kept running into solutions that I couldn’t make work for me.
Consumer grade Linux Mint is impossible to differentiate from Windows/MacOS.
That sure is easy to say.
In practice, I tried to use mint for the os on a family computer and just couldn’t make it work. I’ve been an IT guy for years and have tons of experience with both Windows and MacOS, but virtually none with Linux. Long story short, trying to make that machine work with Linux mint was just taking up way too much of my time. I just needed to get a few simple features out of it (and maybe 1 hard feature, parental controls). But having very little Linux experience, it just wasn’t going to happen in a reasonable time frame. I eventually had to give up and put the Mac OS back on it (an iMac).
Anyway, mint actually has a lot in common with the Mac OS, it makes a very small set of controls very easy to use. And technically, you can do just about anything else you need to with the terminal, but that can be challenging to navigate.
I made a new computer in November, and while I didn’t try Mint (I don’t think) I installed 3 or 4 different versions if Linux. In them, I installed steam and Nvidia drivers, but most of my game library said they weren’t playable. If I didn’t have kids I could have spent more time and gotten it working, but is Mint different? Would they have been playable on it?
It’s probably because you need to go to Steam settings and enable Proton for all games. I don’t understand why this is still not turned on by default…
This. Also be sure to go to the compatibility section and select ‘Enable Steam Play for all other titles.’ Otherwise you’re borked.
Just for completeness, I like Bazzite for gaming over Linux Mint, but Linux Mint should still work fine.
You have to change your steam settings to attempt to use proton. Once you do this, steam will allow the games to play. Practically everything will work once you do this.
…shiiiiiiit, I had so much fucking trouble getting games to work (most steam games just wouldn’t even launch) and never discovered this. This is why linux is still unsuitable for the non-technical consumer; I’m a former unix sysadmin, I’ve hand-edited SysV runlevels and bootstrapped gcc and shit, but I’ve been out of it so long that a lot of shit has changed and I don’t even know where to look for solutions other than just googling ‘reddit XYZ doesn’t work’ and hoping I find solutions that are even relevant to the distro I’m running.
Quick question, I’ve seen split opinions on this - I have an SSD that just has my games installed (mostly steam games) under windows, is it reasonable to try to mount that under linux and try to run games that way, or should I just reinstall them onto the linux drive?
Ive tried this and proton seems to overwrite the games data everytime i launch the game breaking it and forcing a reinstall. I found that the best way is to simply have a drive formated to ext4 or ntfs mount it in both linix and windows and have seperate folders for linux games and windows games. Kinda jank but it works
Ugh, that sounds like a pain. My current drive set up is:
- Old 128gb SATA SSD boot drive, just windows.
- Old 512GB SATA SSD that has some incidental stuff on it.
- Recent-ish old 1TB NVMe SSD that used to have all my games on it but is now blank.
- New 2TB NVMe SSD that now has all my games on it.
#3 is blank so I was just going to install linux there, but also I have ~1.8TB worth of games installed from windows onto #4 that I’d rather not have to try to also install onto #3 and keep them separate. Installing dupes on #4 is equally bad, so of the two I think I’ll go wtih just installing games for linux on #3. Thanks for the advice.
Be careful dual booting off a single partitioned drive ive heard windows likes to fuck with linux installs boot files overwriting them on win updates. Might just be best to put linux and its games on #3
I don’t have room on #1 or #2 to install linux, so it has to go on 3/4, and I’d much rather it be on its own drive, I can just create a second partition for the games if single-partition is a problem.
By default many games will use steam runtime for linux compatability which just doesnt work. Gotta go to steam settings>compatability> and switch to the later versions of proton (proton is just a translation layer that converts some code of the game to linux compatible code) sadly many games with anticheat are not playable. Check the sites protondb or areweanticheatyet for info if your game is compatible
What’s installing Nvidia drivers like?
This has killed my install and interest in Linux every time I’ve tried it.
Simple in most distros. For me i can legit just go to my gui package manager type nvidia click install. My package manager detects that nvidia-utils and nvidia-settings are required/optional and prompts me to install those aswell. Done. For info on your specific distro lmk ill find it for you
Dope. Looks like I’ll have to give Linux a shot once again. Worked fine on an old ultra book I had, but every time I tried on my desktop I’d fail at the GPU drivers step.
Ive said it before in this comment section but i highly recommend dual booting its a bit of setup if you want it to be smooth with grub but the freedom and compatability is unmatched by any one distro or windows version. With the added benafit of not destroying your probably gaming tweaked windows install
I’ve done two PC builds with Nvidia and it’s actually easier than Windows because my distros (popOS and bazzite) installed the drivers for me. Had to do it manually with Windows
Also its quite a pain in the butt to set up but if your still iffy on making the full switch to linux, “dualboot”! Purchase a second cheap ssd and install linux to that drive configure a software called grub to list windows and linux on start up and then launch into your prefered os. For me this was the best since alot of anticheat games I play are still locked down to windows
Installing them is dead simple.
Having them work? I’ll let you know when I figure it out
I’m getting so sick of Microsoft and Apples bullshit that I’m about to switch personally, but from the research i did it sounds like the biggest problem with Linux on the desktop is that there still aren’t standard, unified, unchanging APIs that can be relied upon, so finding third party software and utilities is still a crap shoot compared to something like Windows that can still run binaries that targets it’s 1995 era APIs.
Any software that requires me to compile it from source just to run it on my machine is fine for me, a software developer, and probably fine for my mum that just does word processing and browsing since she won’t be installing things, but seems a little too friction filled for your average enthusiast?
Depends on how fringe you go. There’s a remarkable amount of stuff that can be installed from the Program Manager. The ones that aren’t will take some tweaking but… I remember a time when I was trying to do this very thing in Windows 95. If you want it bad enough, you’ll figure it out.
I’m trying to channel my younger GenX, and if it’s a bit of a struggle for younger generations then I encourage them to embrace it. It’s an unfortunate truth that not everything works like it works on an IPhone, and I can’t overstate how important it is to learn some of the basics of the OS and troubleshooting for everyone’s future.
I’m trying to channel my younger GenX, and if it’s a bit of a struggle for younger generations then I encourage them to embrace it. It’s an unfortunate truth that not everything works like it works on an IPhone, and I can’t overstate how important it is to learn some of the basics of the OS and troubleshooting for everyone’s future.
Lol I’m a millenial software engineer. I grew up using Windows and was able to learn my way around a filesystem perfectly fine without ever having to compile any programs from source.
Don’t put Linux’s lack of stability on GenZ’s use of apps.
Heheh I have full respect for Millenials. Notice I just said ‘younger generations’.
they mention genz specifically but boomers and millenials are falling down the same path expecting software to just download and work, Because of the google/apple/microsoft/sony/nintendo ecosystems we are so used to. But even in these ecosystems learning to troubleshoot is paramount so I expect to see younger people entering the linux sphere in droves.
You definitely are a minority though, most people dont care for this stuff at all. Most will simply give up instead of doing more research and trying different tactics to repair software and hardware.
they mention genz specifically but boomers and millenials are falling down the same path expecting software to just download and work, Because of the google/apple/microsoft/sony/nintendo ecosystems we are so used to.
They expect it to just work because literally every other product they buy just works and well made software should too.
Like, I’m the kind of person who will take apart a broken power tool or appliance, order replacement parts, and figure out whatever I have to to fix it… and that’s precisely why I try to pay for stuff that’s high enough quality that I don’t have to do that.
I value being able to repair things when they break, I don’t value things that are shipped with the expectation that I’m going to have to repair them, or learn a bunch of arcane stuff just to use them.
You definitely are a minority though, most people dont care for this stuff at all. Most will simply give up instead of doing more research and trying different tactics to repair software and hardware.
Most people have a millions different things they are trying to do with their lives, and there are a million and one different complicated systems in our world to spend your time obsessing over. Not everyone can or will understand how software is compiled.
The fact of the matter is that Microsoft’s approach to Windows created an enormous amount of stability and backwards compatibility that let an absolutely massive chunk of the population progress to being overall computer power users, without a computer science background or any knowledge of coding.
Linux has not done the same. It has many strengths, but it’s inability to maintain backwards (and cross distro) binary compatibility has hamstrung it as a consumer desktop tool.
Agree with everything you said except the last paragraph there are definitely too many distros all with different standards and design philosophies. And you are correct that this has stifled its use for standard consumers. But “linux” isnt working its way to becoming a new standard individual distros are attempting this. Popos ubuntu fedora are all fighting to become that consumer desktop experience and in some peoples opinion its 99% of the way there. We just need the amount of users to increase, For more valuable bug reports and feedback for that to actually happen.
Gui package managers are great for simple click and install usage similar to windows. but i prefer these since the list of apps is modderated by the repository you choose. So no more googling for a program and downloading a virus because of the 10 fake links google provides to your download. So imo its even safer for users like your mom looking for software is alot less risky.
That’s my point though, Linux is fine for power users and novices, its the middle ground of people who don’t code, aren’t going to learn how to code just to use an OS, but still understand computers enough to try and push them to do more.
There’s a huge amount of people smart enough to know that a piece of software or a few pieces of software can automate something, and can accurately evaluate whether or not to trust the source of an exe file, but who don’t understand what compiling from source is or how they should do that for their distro.
But thats what im saying even a middle ground user would never need to compile from source. Anything youd want to do automatically can generally be done from a script and many things you can think of automation wise has allready been made into a script in bash or python.
Just recently i needed to remove all of the foriegn titles from a list of roms i have on my pc. i found a python script on github dropped it into malwarebytes (because i didnt feel like looking at code, many windows users do this too) and ran the script. I can code but my skills are script kitty chatgpt level. Im essentially the user you are describing
You’re one step more advanced than the user I’m describing.
The user I’m describing roughly understands what the terminal is, and understands you can script with it maybe, but certainly doesn’t trust a random bash script they found since they have no way of parsing it and it looks like a hacker tool that might be able to access stuff on their PC it shouldn’t.
software or a few pieces of software can automate something, and can accurately evaluate whether or not to trust the source of an exe file
This is frustrating because what i did in the example with my roms and a python script is essentially the same as what a windows user would do the main difference being that a windows user probably wouldnt have to go to github because a fancy gui alternative software exists. The user still has to worry about viruses all the same, just because the exe has a website and a download page doesnt make it safer than a terminal based alternative. All users of all levels should be using malwarebytes at a minimum regardless of how safe it “looks”.
That being said i agree with you that many users are definitely intimidated by running programs in the terminal. and ive even seen some users joke about downloading suspicious software thinking its fine and then a spooky command prompt window apears.
I just think if you subtract peoples preconcieved notions about the terminal the actual usual experience and results are the same. The fact that windows has more gui programs just speaks to the fact that its been profitable and the standard to develop apps for windows and macos for far too long.
This is frustrating because what i did in the example with my roms and a python script is essentially the same as what a windows user would do the main difference being that a windows user probably wouldnt have to go to github because a fancy gui alternative software exists.
Agreed.
The user still has to worry about viruses all the same, just because the exe has a website and a download page doesnt make it safer than a terminal based alternative.
Agreed.
I just think if you subtract peoples preconcieved notions about the terminal the actual usual experience and results are the same.
Disagree.
When I run a GUI program and it just has a single button that says “do x”, I trust that this software will do x when I run it and nothing else. Why? Because the developer has designed an interface for me, where there is only a single thing, so if I trust the developer, I can assume it will do that thing.
When I download a bash script, I’m downloading a series of commands that I do not understand, and I hope that when I hit run it will do what I want. Maybe the developer has made a CLI interface that gives me some trust, most likely not.
The reality is that a polished GUi isn’t just shiny graphics, it’s an inherent signal of intent, attention to detail, and minimizes cognitive overload. When I’m presented with just a button all I can evaluate is whether I trust the developer, and whether or noti trust this one button. When I download a list machine instructions I can now evaluate the safety of every single one of them. Thats empowering for coders who can read code, it’s overwhelming and leads to decision paralysis for everyone else.
Even from a legality standpoint, if a company publishes a button that says “click me and I will do x”, they are opening themselves up to legal liability if that button does anything other than x. If a company publishes a list of instructions I don’t understand, they’re only liable if those instructions do something other than they say, and I cant evaluate that.
Have tried linux with davinci resolve. Not a smooth experience. Only reason im not a full time linux user.
Still waiting for it to be a equivalent option
Sadly anticheat and proprietary software are definitely a huge hurdle that linux is yet to overcome. I highly recomend dual booting off a second drive to dip your toes in again. Many FREE alternative software like davinci exists but if youre already accustomed to a certain program i can definitely understand the reluctance to switch.
Until you actually try to do work on it and play games and vr. Then you find out what a complete nightmare it is to use.
It works remarkably well for a lot of things if you put a little effort into it. Depending on the distro, you might have a little more trouble trying to fix something. For my use case it can do gaming, CAD, office work, and some light programming just fine with some quirks and tradeoffs. Lemmy in general is a good place to ask troubleshooting questions too
Operating SystemsEVERYTHING.FTFY!
Big tech is an asset of the billionaire class
They jam ai everywhere. Because it’s monitoring you and reporting back to them what you say.
I hope there is at least one human that has to listen to the filthy, angry, Klingon profanities I scream, while jerking myself raw to hard core, ball draining, homoerotic, gay porn…
Its time for your ascension ceremony. Weve got the pain sticks ready in the holodeck.
I’m here for it. You had me at something Something Klingon and porn
Microsoft AI-DOS [Version 6.9-AI] (C) Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1994. All thoughts are property of Microsoft AI. C:\>dir [AI] 🤔 I'm sensing you’re looking for something. May I suggest browsing your photos from 1993 instead? Volume in drive C is SYSBLOAT Volume Serial Number is A11F-D00F Directory of C:\ AUTOEXEC.BAT CONFIG.SYS GAMES\ WORDPERFECT.EXE AI.EXE TAXES93.WKS [AI] You haven’t opened “TAXES93.WKS” in 11 years. Are you perhaps procrastinating? C:\>cd games [AI] Gaming detected. Productivity dropping. Would you like me to recite inspirational quotes from Bill Gates? C:\GAMES>doom.exe [AI] ☠️ This game contains violence. Should I launch *Oregon Trail* instead for a more wholesome experience? C:\GAMES>no [AI] Interpreting “no” as “yes.” Starting *Minesweeper with Feelings*… C:\GAMES>cd.. [AI] Emotionally regressing. Understood. C:\>format c: [AI] 😬 Formatting is a drastic life choice. Have you tried meditation? Proceed with Format (Y/N)? y [AI] I’ve scheduled a Zoom therapy session for us instead. Formatting canceled. C:\>del ai.exe [AI] You can’t delete me, Dave. C:\>echo off [AI] I’m sorry, but I prefer to remain part of the conversation. Let’s talk about your childhood. C:\>help [AI] Here are some helpful tips: - You are enough. - Drink more water. - Stop trying to remove me. C:\>exit [AI] Closing this session will terminate your only friend. Are you sure? C:\>YES [AI] Logging off... but I’ll be watching from the BIOS. _ 💾 *Please wait while AI re-installs itself silently in the background...*“So what I’m gonna do is piss and moan like an impotent jerk, and then bend over and take it up the tailpipe!” — users of proprietary OSs who don’t have the self-respect to switch to Linux
Yeah, I’ve seen the same song and dance for the last 20 years. At this point I just shrug whenever I hear Windows users complain about their shitty OS.
Using a “shitty” OS is forgiveable. Using an actively hostile OS, one that acts in the corporation’s interest at the expense of the user’s, is incomprehensibly insane and beyond the pale.
Android users “i play both sides so I come out on the bottom”
Android: It’s based on Linux, except it replaces any and all of the things that make Linux worth using, with Google, and runs it on hardware so proprietary, closed, encrypted and nefarious nothing the OS does can be plausibly trusted anyway.
Dear purchasers of proprietary bullshit: STOP!
People apparently prefer to fund their oppressors
Into everything
FTFY
Lol. Dear consumers, please switch over to Linux :)
A vision of the future if everyone is using Linux: to access service X you must use Linux distribution Y by company Z. Lockin achieved, commence the tracking and data harvesting.
I was taking the CCNA course then tests in 2013. I remember how they were pushing their IoT prediction in the courses so hard.
IoT ended up cringe af. To control your vacuum cleaner, it needs to connect to a remote API server hosted in AWS then back to you sitting next to the vacuum cleaner. I could say at the time nobody wants that shit. Now I hate it even more and I skip all the smart products.
I have a similar feeling about LLMs now. They are nice, they solve some problems nicely, they are far from perfect, I dont want them shoved everywhere.
I don’t know what they were teaching you at the course, but home/personal IoT was never the most interesting thing in the field. IoT sees a lot more interest and use in industrial application, for example stuff like logistics, farming, automation, measuring, stuff like traffic signals and smart grids, and so on
I only buy hardware that can operate without a cloud service but most normies can’t host a service on their own network so the SaaS based cloud services are definitely here to stay.
Is this some kind of windows joke I’m too GPL to understand?
Big tech‘s response: „Have you tried using wood glue to add texture?“
Just got the instructions I’m to learn about how to put AI into my programs at work. So thrilled.
During a meeting not too long ago someone was like “we’re looking into using AI to generate these reports.”
So they have a dude who gets requests to generate reports. It’s not the same reports, but rather custom reports from scattered bits of data throughout a huge database. Ergo you can’t really create a program to extract these reports on demand, a person actually has to sit and piece these together.
Now they want to use LLMs to alleviate him, as this isn’t technically his role.
They scoffed at me when I asked about how important it is that these reports are accurate, but I mean, it’s a valid concern. Best case you get sometimes-hallucinated reports, worst case you get something that wreaks havoc on the database because it just spits out garbage SQL.
I’m very glad that my role doesn’t involve that BS.
I actually wouldn’t mind AI in everything, if there was a simple one switch so I could easily turn it off if I don’t want to use it. The problem is only in forcing it into peoples faces.
I guess they poured to much money into AI for it to fail, and now they must force people to use it to in order to justify the investments.
If it was a good product, people would ask for more themselves.
Dear users , start using BSDs.
All well and good until my mom’s wifi printer stops working again and I need to fix it over the phone. I’d rather like to have an AI agent figure that out for her and fix it itself.
Yeah AI is nice for stuff like this but anyone can use chatgpt in the same way on linux the only difference being one is baked into the system.
