I feel like a + shaped screw head would be as standard as a pyramid if multiple civilizations had developed screws independently. It wouldn’t be the last kind, but it would be there somewhere. Maybe even a long, long time ago.
This bugs me so much more than it should. Why do we have three different standards for + shaped screws? You know what doesn’t have this problem? Flatheads. There’s exactly one way to make a flathead screwdriver, and I won’t be looking it up to make sure I’m right
I see that multiple people have replied, but unfortunately reading these comments would be a form of research so I must decline
Their isn’t one way to make a flat head screwdriver. Some a chisel and some are slots. The slotted ones are better but more expensive.
Both still slip from the screw and are a pain to manually screw (slotted less so).
Pozi is the best + type screw. It’s pretty much standard for UK construction. The only time a different type is used is sometimes Phillips for plaster board or external hex and internal torx for long or large screws.
I think a single slotted screw head would be more universal and easy. You just cut one line into the top of the screw head and your ready to go. A Philips head would need to be cut twice and once you did, you’ve weakened the head one degree more by removing more material
You clearly haven’t had to screw a flathead screw.
Anyone that’s dicked around with those little bastards starts hating life after about thirty seconds. A fastener I can screw in a without having to be perfectly in line with the shaft? Yes please! I don’t care if it’s a shitty Phillips screw, sign me up. I’d even take those goofy square Canadian screws. Hell, anything is better than flathead.
I challenge you to find a screw worse to use than a flathead screw.
This is not (just) the ramblings of a mad nerd, but objective fact derived from contact area between screwdriver and screw.
In practice hex does have one situational advantage over Torx, namely that they are almost always tightened with Allen keys which are more torque-y and can be used in tight spaces. For every other application Torx wins. Every other head type is strictly inferior and only exists for legacy or penny-saving reasons.
What they don’t say is that the smaller the features on the contact, the easier it is to strip them. This almost reverses the order on your post depending on the way you tighten the screw.
Torx is more resilient to over-torsion than Hex, but both of them will end near the end of the list on that one metric, with slot first, and way ahead of anything else.
Despite what the Torx publicity says, engineering is done over a multitude of dimensions, and that one dimension Torx wins may not be nearly as important as some other random one.
I agree … and if I ever had the choice … I’d go with Robertson or Torx for all my screws
But we were talking about (I thought that is what we were talking about) is what common basic screw design would be common to appear in a world where no screws existed. A slot is simple and easy to make … just take a metal saw and cut one slot and voila you can turn it with a simple flat screwdriver head … simple to make, simple to reproduce … a pain in ass? yes? a universal torture device that will make your life miserable? yes?
But if we ever end up in a situation where we have no hardware stores, no manufactured supplies, no heavy machinery, no metal stamping equipment, no heavy duty presses then cutting a simple slot across the top of a threaded rod is the easiest way to make your own screwhead and start working with using your own homemade screw driver … a pain in the ass? yes … but at least you can screw things together after the world has ended.
This probably doesn’t exist but is probably worse the a flat head. What about a friction screw where the top is like rubber and to unscrew you need to rotated using a driver with another flat rubber head
(lol just kidding. what you’re describing is almost as bad as unscrewing a security flathead screw. look it up. invented by Satan, with help from Brian Thompson)
So ironically I’ve used a rubber band similar to what you describe to break free and remove screws on several occasions. It’s not fool proof but worth a shot to avoid drilling and tapping.
Easiest to manufacture tho (probably, I’m not an expert. But if you were to make a fastener with rudimentary tools, Phillips seems like it would likely be the easiest.)
Easiest, yes. And wheels are easier than repulserlifts. If sometime said “Ya know, greasing axels sucks balls. Let’s invent something better”, they probably developed something better than the shittiest screw head in the history of sentience.
Ohhh no… As a person who regularly builds random shit for film and television, the single slotted screw is the bane of my bloody existence. Some designers fucking love em for the aesthetic but the cam outs on them are terrible. Is it technically easier to produce? Yes, is it viable to use for construction purposes comparitively - fuck no. Every time you cam out ( lose traction on the screw) you risk accidentally damaging whatever medium you are screwing into.
Locally there is an insane institutional preference for the Robertson screw (which is basically a square) because it doesn’t cam out much, drives in well and arguably resists stripping better than a Phillips… This is believed in so much that any screw not seen by the camera is a Robby (usually size 2) while anything that is perceived by the audience is a phillips or a single slot screw. Given a choice nobody wants to handle single slots and chances are good you only find them in period specific builds or when the designer is a psychopath.
The only thing slotted was good for was on old ships. When water grime built up on them they were easy to scrape out with your screwdriver and use the screw. That is THE ONLY good thing about slotted screws. If they get full of shit it’s easy to clean out. Other than that they fucking suck in every other way.
Absolutely the only benefit to slot headed screws is how easy they are to make, which is why they’re what a home machinist would make when creating his own fasteners, and why any aliens out there that use threaded fasteners have probably also tried and learned to hate them.
Most other shapes of driver aren’t cut, they’re stamped.
Neither have I but we were talking about how to make a basic screw without needing to forge or stamp or manufacture screws … if you ever had to make a screw yourself, you take a hack saw and cut a slot in the screw head … then a second cut crossing the first to make the (+) shape
I feel like a + shaped screw head would be as standard as a pyramid if multiple civilizations had developed screws independently. It wouldn’t be the last kind, but it would be there somewhere. Maybe even a long, long time ago.
There are at least 3 standards for the + shape already. Phillips, Pozidrive, and Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS). They do not play well together.
insert obligatory xkcd standards reference
Don’t forget Frearson/Reed & Prince!
But wait, there’s more!
And even more!
We only have standards so we can break’em.
JIS has been obsoleted and replaced in Japanese products with the ISO Phillips bit shape. It still exists on lots of products pre 2000 though.
Kawasaki is still holding on strong to JIS screws in it’s machinery.
Are you sure they’re JIS? Because JIS and ISO are interchangeable and effectively the same; the ISO adopted standard used most of JIS’s rules.
Yeah. I keep one of these around just for older Yamaha and newer Kawasaki equipment. You’ll end up drilling half of them out if you try to use #3 ISO.
I’m in the powersports/agricultural industry, so we tend to lag behind everyone else.
That’s just galvanic corrosion from using cadmium plated bolts in aluminum fuel injection hardware. It’s basically free loctite.
JIS is looking better according to these guys…
This bugs me so much more than it should. Why do we have three different standards for + shaped screws? You know what doesn’t have this problem? Flatheads. There’s exactly one way to make a flathead screwdriver, and I won’t be looking it up to make sure I’m right
I see that multiple people have replied, but unfortunately reading these comments would be a form of research so I must decline
Should the slot be partial or go all the way through? If partial, is that standard for the size of the screw, or universal?
How wide should the slot be? Should that change based on the size of the screw?
How deep should the slot be?
Should the sides of the slot be perfectly straight, or angled to perfectly fit the wedge shape of the driver? If angled, what angle?
Should the bottom of the slot be perfectly flat or slightly rounded so a coin or something could be used in a pinch? If rounded, what radius?
Should the top of the screw be perfectly flat, or domed, or raised?
Should the bottom of the head be flat, angled (at which angle), smooth, rough.
Should we use metric or freedom units for the thread pitch?
Should the threads go all the way to the head?
Should the point of the screw be flat or tapered (at what angle)?
Ok, only the first half of those were about the driver used, but I’m sure there are things I missed in that!
Their isn’t one way to make a flat head screwdriver. Some a chisel and some are slots. The slotted ones are better but more expensive.
Both still slip from the screw and are a pain to manually screw (slotted less so).
Pozi is the best + type screw. It’s pretty much standard for UK construction. The only time a different type is used is sometimes Phillips for plaster board or external hex and internal torx for long or large screws.
I think a single slotted screw head would be more universal and easy. You just cut one line into the top of the screw head and your ready to go. A Philips head would need to be cut twice and once you did, you’ve weakened the head one degree more by removing more material
You clearly haven’t had to screw a flathead screw.
Anyone that’s dicked around with those little bastards starts hating life after about thirty seconds. A fastener I can screw in a without having to be perfectly in line with the shaft? Yes please! I don’t care if it’s a shitty Phillips screw, sign me up. I’d even take those goofy square Canadian screws. Hell, anything is better than flathead.
I challenge you to find a screw worse to use than a flathead screw.
In my experience, Phillips heads strip more often than Robertson.
Torx > Hex > Robertson > Pozidriv > Phillips > Slot.
This is not (just) the ramblings of a mad nerd, but objective fact derived from contact area between screwdriver and screw.
In practice hex does have one situational advantage over Torx, namely that they are almost always tightened with Allen keys which are more torque-y and can be used in tight spaces. For every other application Torx wins. Every other head type is strictly inferior and only exists for legacy or penny-saving reasons.
What they don’t say is that the smaller the features on the contact, the easier it is to strip them. This almost reverses the order on your post depending on the way you tighten the screw.
For hex yes, for Torx no. Your smartphone’s itty bitty screws are quite possibly T4 or similar.
Torx is more resilient to over-torsion than Hex, but both of them will end near the end of the list on that one metric, with slot first, and way ahead of anything else.
Despite what the Torx publicity says, engineering is done over a multitude of dimensions, and that one dimension Torx wins may not be nearly as important as some other random one.
Ngl if I didn’t have impact drivers I’d probably hate Phillips screws a whole lot more
Obligatory ‘yo momma’.
I agree … and if I ever had the choice … I’d go with Robertson or Torx for all my screws
But we were talking about (I thought that is what we were talking about) is what common basic screw design would be common to appear in a world where no screws existed. A slot is simple and easy to make … just take a metal saw and cut one slot and voila you can turn it with a simple flat screwdriver head … simple to make, simple to reproduce … a pain in ass? yes? a universal torture device that will make your life miserable? yes?
But if we ever end up in a situation where we have no hardware stores, no manufactured supplies, no heavy machinery, no metal stamping equipment, no heavy duty presses then cutting a simple slot across the top of a threaded rod is the easiest way to make your own screwhead and start working with using your own homemade screw driver … a pain in the ass? yes … but at least you can screw things together after the world has ended.
How tf can hyperdrive exist but screws haven’t been invented lol
I think the real issue is that prop design has fallen so far from the ILM heyday. Now it’s best described as follows:
This probably doesn’t exist but is probably worse the a flat head. What about a friction screw where the top is like rubber and to unscrew you need to rotated using a driver with another flat rubber head
Pics or it didn’t happen
(lol just kidding. what you’re describing is almost as bad as unscrewing a security flathead screw. look it up. invented by Satan, with help from Brian Thompson)
So ironically I’ve used a rubber band similar to what you describe to break free and remove screws on several occasions. It’s not fool proof but worth a shot to avoid drilling and tapping.
Easiest to manufacture tho (probably, I’m not an expert. But if you were to make a fastener with rudimentary tools, Phillips seems like it would likely be the easiest.)
Easiest, yes. And wheels are easier than repulserlifts. If sometime said “Ya know, greasing axels sucks balls. Let’s invent something better”, they probably developed something better than the shittiest screw head in the history of sentience.
But that’s just, like, my opinion man
Ohhh no… As a person who regularly builds random shit for film and television, the single slotted screw is the bane of my bloody existence. Some designers fucking love em for the aesthetic but the cam outs on them are terrible. Is it technically easier to produce? Yes, is it viable to use for construction purposes comparitively - fuck no. Every time you cam out ( lose traction on the screw) you risk accidentally damaging whatever medium you are screwing into.
Locally there is an insane institutional preference for the Robertson screw (which is basically a square) because it doesn’t cam out much, drives in well and arguably resists stripping better than a Phillips… This is believed in so much that any screw not seen by the camera is a Robby (usually size 2) while anything that is perceived by the audience is a phillips or a single slot screw. Given a choice nobody wants to handle single slots and chances are good you only find them in period specific builds or when the designer is a psychopath.
The only thing slotted was good for was on old ships. When water grime built up on them they were easy to scrape out with your screwdriver and use the screw. That is THE ONLY good thing about slotted screws. If they get full of shit it’s easy to clean out. Other than that they fucking suck in every other way.
☝️ this dude screws
Slotted screws are the proof that Satan is real.
Absolutely the only benefit to slot headed screws is how easy they are to make, which is why they’re what a home machinist would make when creating his own fasteners, and why any aliens out there that use threaded fasteners have probably also tried and learned to hate them.
Most other shapes of driver aren’t cut, they’re stamped.
I have never seen a crosshead screw cut out to the edges…
Neither have I but we were talking about how to make a basic screw without needing to forge or stamp or manufacture screws … if you ever had to make a screw yourself, you take a hack saw and cut a slot in the screw head … then a second cut crossing the first to make the (+) shape