What’s the closest thing we have to a perfect private messanger?
In my mind the perfect private messanger is both completely secure, and also completely anonymous.
All the mainstream messengers can pretty much ensure the contents of the message will not be revealed…but that is not good enough. I want to be able to deploy and establish a completely anonymous AND private channel of communication on a dime without having to jump through extreme operational security hoops.
Does it really exist?
SimpleX is currently the best one possible.
All the security of signal without needing a phone number.
Everything can be through tor. Contact link can be formed with a one time use code that you DM someone privately.
Anything more advanced and you’re basically in internet dead drop territory. An encoded message on a pastebin through tor. Congratulations, you’ve entered pedophile/terrorist level security realm.
Simplex does check alot of those boxes… but smp traffic is easily identifiable unless your jumping through the major hoops of establishing a totally anonymous proxy.
An encoded message on a pastebin through tor. Congratulations, you’ve entered pedophile/terrorist level security realm.
Thats to bad being anonymous and secure puts you in that category. It shouldn’t!
Honestly, pedos & terrorists get the whole world cooperation on doxing them. So if they’re not using a tool or method then it’s not proof against nation states.
Why the need for complete anonymity though? Literally only pedos operate at that level so that nobody can squeal on the others if they are busted (they inevitably need to mess up a real kid because their CSAM isn’t good enough).
This kind of mindset is what make the privacy community seem like outcasts. Yes, pedophiles and other criminals would benefit from complete anonymity, but that does not mean we should draw the line at how anonymous someone gets to be because “only pedos operate at that level”.
Journalist and human rights activists are criminals in certain circumstances. Being a criminal doesn’t mean they are bad.
Journalists and activists can make good use of top security.
Why not XMPP? Its anonymous, E2EE, etc.
Session, Signal, Matrix, and more.
SimpleX?
Tox would also be fantastic, but they need to improve their encryption and get it audited. Also, some nicer UIs in the various clients would be nice.
Briar, SimpleX, I2Pchat on desktop, maybe LXMF/Reticulum/Sideband over I2P if you want to get techy.
Cwtch is in the same space
Signal is far from perfect but its good enough for me.
AFAIK simplex is the closest we have to perfect privacy.
Your own xmpp server
I host one but the more I analyze privacy implications the worse it looks.
Only you and maybe 10 other people will connect to that server’s IP, port 5222. This makes it very easy to track your group by telco operators and people who have access to their logs.
Even if you use a VPN or Tor at all times, most of your other users likely don’t.
And the domain is registered to someone’s name too, although I know this can be worked around.
How is that anonymous?
Because no one will ever send you a message
~/s it was a joke. Hold you horses xmpp fans. Im not attacking anyone here~
Lot of people mentioning SimpleX but I can’t imagine trying to make someone go online at the same time as me to start sending each other messages without being annoyed. It also relies on funding from the British state IIRC.
On the other hand XMPP is a W3C internet standard, the server is super lightweight, plenty of tools and bridges work with it. Movim uses it, which is like an encrypted Mastodon where you can selectively make a post public but otherwise gates everything behind a login. Also you can send messages on the main phone network with the paid Cheogram service, but I realize that an unencrypted SMS relay is not a priority for everyone. I think it’s the bee’s knees.
Lot of people mentioning SimpleX but I can’t imagine trying to make someone go online at the same time as me to start sending each other messages without being annoyed.
Do you just keep your phone off or do you not use your IM clients there? Literally never had this issue with simplex, it deliveres notifications just fine to my phone.
Though I did manually have to give it notification perms on android. Annoying but very easy fix.
Look everyone I know smokes weed it’s really bad. More like a turn your brain on situation. You know how bad that is for your sleep architecture™ over a period of 4-5 years? It’s a wonder they can even remember what I said, but telling them to do something at a certain time? I’d be uncloseted as an authoritarian. The only way I even get people to use these apps is Appeal to Paranoia.
I rip through an ounce of dabs a month and can run a homelab and write software that way, I have no problem holding a 9-5. Your friends are just irresponsible, or more likely, just don’t give a fuck like 99% of people.
Me and my friends are all stoners, we use simplex fine. Not sure what your deal is.
Either way why do they need to do something at a certain time?
YOU CAN MESSAGE OFFLINE USERS ON SIMPLEX THEY WILL GET THE MESSAGE LATER, IF THEYRE ONLINE NOW THEY WILL GET A NOTIFICATION. IF THIS ISNT WORKING YOUR NOTIFICATION SETTINGS ARE FUCKED.
I’m sorry you and your friends can’t figure out how to use literally the first open source privacy a respecting messenger that I actually think I could hand to my grandmother…
Simplex works async. You might be thinking of briar
I don’t understand how every person responding to me has missed that I said “start chatting” not “continue chatting” but I will be idiot-proofing my lemmy comments from here on out, it’s exhausting
Such a high horse for such a tiny person.
- On simplex you can “start chatting” asynchronously
- You didn’t say “start chatting”. You said “start sending messages” which is something you do with people every day
- “Start chatting” and “continue chatting” do not mean what you imply the mean. There is no distinction between them as “the absolute first time” and “all the others”. I can start talking again with a friend I haven’t talked to in months. I can also start talking about a previous topi (" me and my girlfriend started talking once again about having children")
So… You know… Maybe get off the horse? It’s not that everyone around you is an idiot is that you failed to communicate… Or you are an idiot
Can’t believe nobody brought up i2p.
Messages sent through i2p in theory would be secure and anonymous. With an envelope anology, no way to tell if an envelope stops at a particular house or gets forwarded on, and also they can only see bags of envelopes and not a specific envelope.
Are there any cool i2p sites or apps? Since it doesn’t have exit nodes I never found a reason to use it.
I2p has a BitTorrent system. They’d have to block i2p completely to stop it. It will probably be the only way to torrent once VPN bans/liability get brought up.
