I’ve seen around 3 occasions of that this week, altho I have never seen anything like it before.
if I remember correctly they were:
- smack talking a mod (FlyingSquid) for saying not to report the same comment twice, when they were different comments, and the report was spam
- someone comparing .world with .ml in politics (as in there was a comment saying "this post will be overrun with .ml people, and then a comment going “but you are from .world”) (Maybe Im part of the problem? I have been called out for being a fascist because I questioned the “puching nazis” theme)
- one more which I can’t remember.
Anyways, what is all that about? Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
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Thanks for asking this btw. Just found it with a quick search wondering the same thing after reading yet another comment section (this one about Trump, Musk and JD Vance) that turned into 50% whinging about .world mods/admin and horrible reddit users turning their lemmy into a shithole. The answers you got here were really helpful for me to understand a bit more about the context/history of these spaces.
No problem, I was just curious, and I guess you had the same question :)
.world is the biggest instance and therefore a prime choice for trolls to create accounts. Most of the trash posts I’ve seen lately are from brand new users on lemmy.world
I am equally suspicious of brand new lemmy.world users as I am of veterans of lemmy.ml. Older accounts on .world are usually pretty normal.
I like to think of myself as normal lol
I’m here because kbin.social died and this was my next oldest account
I moved to fedia.io because it is basically kbin.social, but working.
I moved to kbin.earth (which later migrated to mbin).
Glad to hear kbin/mbin is still alive. Any good communities/“magazines” there I should check out?
I tried fedia.io, but it’s mobile website design is pure ass. It’s nice on my tablet, where there’s more room for the design to breathe a bit…but smooshed together on the cell phone layout, nothing makes sense. I want to like it, but I’m only on my tablet like 20% of the time. Cell phone is my main use.
There is an app: https://github.com/jwr1/interstellar/releases/tag/v0.6.0
Good to hear you found something that works for you. Personally, I’ve had no problems browsing on phone, though every right sidebar being in the top-left hamburger menu took a while to get used to
I probably would have gone there, but I didn’t want to make another new account, so I just ended up falling back to one I already had.
Haven’t heard of the news. Do you mind telling me what happened to kbin?
The developer and admin, Ernest, went through a rough patch in his life. Development and server upkeep fell off during this time, and it wasn’t picked back up again. I don’t think anyone’s heard from him in a long while now, but I don’t really know.
My twin, I was on kbin.social as well
lemmy.world is popular, which has its pros and cons. At least you didn’t pick hexbear lol
My first account in this place was on .ml because it was only them and beehaw at the time, and I ended up deleting it once controversy popped up lol
How dare you call me normal good sir.
In my experience (hexbear and .ml instances excluded) the majority of trolls I encounter seems to be from either infosec.pub or blahaj.zone
I usually see them from ee or sh.it.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Those blasted canadians.
Its an incredibly pro US biased instance despite not being hosted in the US and having a .world domain.
Greatest hits are [email protected] forbidding non-US topics and of course [email protected] and its bias check bot according to which every non US media is left wing biased.
God that fucking bot.
The bot itself is only mildly offensive, but the fieflord bot-love is just repugnant.
About a month ago news did a “feedback about the bot” thing, in which they declared undying love for the bot above all things and declared any input other than breathless support for the bot to be vote manipulated misinformation.
There were about 3 mods involved, all contradicting each other, and themselves, very condescending, and very sooky and sulky. “One of the mods almost resigned over this!” kind of stuff.
You had to start every comment with “look I know you guys are doing your best and investing all your free time as volunteers but…”
To be fair, considering the right wing hellscape our (US) Overton window overlooks the bias bot might actually have a point.
Oh no. Just no. We’ve found more than enough cases of bias to call it unreliable at best and a cover for washing conservative sources at the worst.
What is this the third time I’ve agreed with you on something? See, common ground.
The bot posts in world news which allows non us news.
It not trying to criticize the right wing bias of political discourse it’s trying to normalize it and apply it to non US issues and media.
I was simply telling a joke, but point well taken.
The bot is bad and jonsjava is a real piece of shit just by themself.
Both should be blocked… It is DNC komissars run them subs
It’s a battle of political ideologies.
ml is administered by the creators of Lemmy, they are openly socialist/communist/tankie depending on your own ideology, ml was chosen to represent Marxism-Leninism, and so the people it attracted are generally also adhering to this kind of ideologies.
.world was created for Redditors exile, as such, it is mostly center-left to social democrat.Political extremists tend to extremise everything, typically a tankie will call you a Nazi/fascist if you disagree with them. That’s one of your answer.
Secondly, some ml people are frustrated that Lemmy is not their own little thing anymore for them and their friends, as world is the biggest instance now by far. So they show some kind of instance-xenophobia, not much different from the Great Replacement theory: “we are being culturally replaced through mass migration”.
Not all .ml people are like that of course. In my experience, it is enough to block a few tankies to get back to civilized discussions.
I have had way more issues with .ml communities than .world
ML was basically designed to be an echo chamber, it’s right there in the name.
ML
wasis basicallydesignedmoderated to be an echo chamber, it’s right there in the name.FTFY (though, I’m mostly being sarcastic here - like most things, moderation there is a mixed bag from community to community).
.world is the one that “preemptively defederated HB and grad, as a last resort” due to such scary views as opposing NATO and the IMF.
There are sophisticated and nuanced critiques to be made of Western power projection, soft and hard. “Nuanced” and “sophisticated” are not words appropriate to the average hexbear or lemmygrad denizen’s take on geopolitics, and for those of us who live in the real world rather than living to argue over how many Maos can dance on the tip of the icepick that killed Trotsky, the loud and unrelenting naysaying of anything less extreme than “armed proletarian revolution now!” got to be incredibly tiresome, not to mention the constant cheerleading of brutally-repressive regimes that don’t have any values in common with actual socialists or communists just because they oppose the US and its allies.
The constant cheerleading of brutally-repressive regimes that don’t have any values in common with actual socialists or communists just because they oppose the US and its allies.
This is my main issue with tankies. Yeah, late-stage capitalism sucks and exploits the layman to enrich the rich further—I take no issue with that. It’s the knob-slobbering of Putin, Xi Jinping, and Kim Jong Un that makes no sense. Modern-day Russia, China, and North Korea have about as much in common with communism as oat milk has with milk: nothing but the name.
as oat milk has with milk: nothing but the name.
Drag thinks oat milk is milk. Drag isn’t convinced that cow’s milk is real milk, though. Milk comes from a plant, drag isn’t sure something from an animal’s boob counts. Chemically it’s too different from milk to call it the same thing.
I think practicality is the only important thing here, if something looks and tastes like milk, and can be used as milk in 98% of cases, it’s fine to call it a type of milk.
Certainly if we’re gonna call peanut butter peanut butter just because it spreads like butter, despite having no other similarity, there’s no reason to split hairs over things that are interchangeable with milk.
So, Drag thinks countries that act as though their neighbors are part of a greater whole ruled by them as the motherland, and have political structures where the governing body consists of a small cohort (and not the proletariat) are communist?
That’s imperialism, buddy.
Let me know when: 1) China stops trying to exert absolute control over Tibet, Taiwan, and Hong Kong; 2) North Korea accepts that their ownership ends where their globally-recognized territory ends; 3) Russia stops invading neighboring countries; and 4) All three of them abolish the ruling class and give the power to the people.
December edit: This is a regretful instance of me being needlessly antagonistic.
Go visit hexbear.net/PPB (nsfw) for a good reason why one might want to defederate from them.
Fuck off tankie
Everyone has. That place is a toxic shithole.
I haven’t.
give it more than 14 days.
A month so far. I mean, I’m pretty sure I probably said stuff that was ignorant of actual facts that showed up on other instances and could’ve been dv’d by, it argued over with them, it’s hard to say since my original instance went down and I generally try not to hold grudges, but as long as I’ve been consciously aware, I don’t recall any unpleasantness. But then I’m not going on their instances acting like I know everything just because I read it from a Western or US-centric source. All governments BS their citizens and we never really know to what extents, since *Assange, Snowden, Manning and a bunch of other whistle-blowers were heavily persecuted and prosecuted.
I have been corrected, with credible sources from Western-centric media and had my thinking challenged, but it wasn’t disrespectfully, as far as I was aware. They’re alright, I’ve had non -confrontational posts rm’d and been flamed for no good reason by mods and regulars on the biggest instance. Every other instance seems pretty decent, but that’s my own experience.
I mean… a toxic shithole? Really??
I think of it as more of a cancerous shithole.
A toxic, cancerous shithole of vapid pissfarts incessantly salivating on themselves while climbing over one another to be top edgelord in a community that will eternally fail to produce anything remotely resembling neither edge, nor lords.
I made the mistake of being an anarchist on ml and hexbear.
Waay, waaaaaay too many tankies getting insanely pissed off and swarm when you criticize (point out obvious facts, really) any non US/Western countries or allies along anarchist lines.
It rapidly devolves into idpol, rants and tirades that are barely related to the topic or comment, Fox News style ‘I’m just asking questions in good faith’ which are obviously not in good faith if you’re older than maybe 10.
I dare someone to go ml or grad or hex and attempt to have a serious and thorough conversation about the Sino-Vietnamese war. Or Uighurs. Or the Holodomor. Or whether the concept of self-determination applies to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Palestine at the same time.
I remember at one point explaining a meme that popped up on some China’s social media site that boiled down to ‘Deng Xiaoping’s reforms have led to Chinese women craving giant Black cocks’, and all of them being just fine with incels and racism when its not Westerners doing it.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
EDIT: Its somewhat sad, as it is great fun when everyone is dogpiling on some new latest insane western neocolonialism or corporate incompetence/hellscape type stuff, but I treat those places like Ravenholm:
We don’t go there anymore.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin
That’s an instaban from hb, grad, and .ml, did you report that post?
I’ve seen bans there for Calling out horseshoe theory. As if it’s a slur
No, I was already banned from a bunch of communities for discussing the aforementioned things and I just blocked the instances … 6 months ago I think?
Anarchists aren’t allowed to report queerphobia on Hexbear. Because Hexbear keeps banning anarchists.
One of the admins, Nakoichi, is an anarchist. But please point me at the queerphobia, I’m not banned from hb, I’ll report it, I have faith they’ll do something about it.
This is false. Anti-AES anarchists are banned, because sectarianism is banned.
Drag has no problem with the Advanced Encryption Standard, which is the first Google result for AES.
Already existing communism
Actually Existing Socialism, “Communism” as a stage in development hasn’t been achieved by any AES state yet.
Oh, well drag isn’t one of those! Drag thinks communism has existed for 60,000 years in Australia, and a long time in many other places too. It’s a shame Russia and China were corrupted by the siren song of state capitalism before they managed to implement the Australian model. If only they’d been more like Catalonia.
Better to die a communist than to engage in trade relations with Nazi Germany during the holocaust.
Or whether the concept of self-determination applies to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Palestine at the same time.
That’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off the most. I don’t know how someone can support resistance by any means for Palestinians but seriously suggest Ukrainians are nazis for resisting an imperialist invasion.
PS: there’s at least 2 anarchist instances on Lemmy 😉
Slightly off topic, is db0 one of the anarchist instances you’re referring to? I know it’s a generally leftist instance, but don’t know much more detail than that
Yes, that’s my instance :) it’s run by anarchists and has an anarchist CoC and general vibe. slrpnk is the second.
I’m such a dunce, I didn’t spot your username 🤦
Thought I was asking a db0 random, not the NaN himself
I like db0 because it reminds of how cool the ‘you wouldn’t download a car’ commercials made piracy look. They were right, it is cool.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
The culture where these sorts of blatant lies are accepted without question is my biggest problem with .world. You can have whatever actual beliefs you want, but lying like this is really despicable.
Please show any sources for this garbage, these are all bannable offenses on Grad, Hexbear, and .ml.
Oh people have tried I’m sure. They are banned now.:-)
I’ve yet to see anyone in .world ban someone simply for having a political affiliation. The tankie communities flat-out ban for being “liberal.”
Granted, it’s been a while since I e seen this happen, the admins/mods there do not hide their bias.
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I’m not against eating ass, but it depends who’s ass it is.
First off, I’m only eating female ass. Secondly, she’s gotta be above 25 years old…and even that’s kinda young. Thirdly, she’s gotta shower well. I want that butthole to be CLEAN! And lastly, I gotta love her. I’m not just gonna go out on a first date at The Olive Garden, and then go home to her place and start eating ass! Hey, how’dya do? MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH!!! No, I have to have a connection to her.
So I’m not “No Eat Ass”, but I’m not 100% pro “Eat Ass” either. But I guess you guys would just call me a centrist, and I’d get attacked from both sides for not being far enough on their side.
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I mean…which flavor are the enemas?
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Look at what this country has come to!
I first ate my partner’s ass after dancing at a rave for hours, at 2AM, on copious amounts of MDMA, no shower.
I’m undoubtedly Team Eat Ass.
“Nazis” flooding lemmy to replace the poor tankies (c. 2023):
Extremism :- (
I hope people point out that they and the fascists both agree on Great Replacement theory lol
Imo the best mods/admins are the ones I don’t have to interact with and oh boy did I interact with the admins of .world
Nice way to phrase it 😄
A lot of this boils down to consequences of lemmy.world being the largest instance: typical Reddit users beeline for it, trolls go there, larger comms so more frequent issues with moderation, people who fail to distinguish between “we shouldn’t concentrate our activity into the largest instance” and “largest instance bad! EDIT WOW THANKS FOR LE GOLD TO LE KNEE KIND STRANGER!”, so goes on.
Back when reddit* was just starting to fall to shit, I had already been dipping my toes in the mastodon water, and while I really liked the instance I was on it did not have enough people on it to properly surface good collections of off node traffic.
Knowing that Mastodon had the problem, I didn’t dick around with smaller nodes. To be honest it’s still a fight if you’re on a node with only a handful of people, you have to do something to mitigate the lack of community traffic in the face of lacking discoverability.
People are doing that here though - e.g. the user Blaze made accounts on basically every instance, and subscribed to every community. This gets around the limitation where at least one user of an instance must subscribe to a community before it will even so much as show up for others to also subscribe. Really the developers should have made better automation so that this was not necessary, but… anyway it works, for now:-).
(If true) that’s actually really terrible for federation performance, particularly because lemmy doesn’t do batch synchronization. So basically every comment, post, like, and community is being sent to all Lemmy servers as individual sequential requests. That’s a lot to handle.
Supposedly that will change with v0.19.6 (A recent discussion about that here: https://feddit.org/post/3524876), but yeah it’s causing smaller instances such as Aussie.Zone to have delays of over 7 days.
I also expressed disbelief that this info would not be bundled somehow - at least put together a package for everything that happened across the entire instance in one second, or one minute could be far better, for servers that can’t handle the per-second traffic?
Well that’s good!
And right, I had the exact same thought… It seems like the lemmy devs are not highly experienced web developers, at least not that have worked on anything at the scale lemmy became after the Reddit exodus.
I thought at first that everything was simply slow to develop bc of using the Rust programming language.
Now I hold great excitement for the upcoming projects like Sublinks, Piefed, Mbin, and Tesseract (that one is more a front-end UI for whatever backend protocol). But Lemmy still has all the effort put into it in the past so it is ahead for that reason at least.
I’m eyeing Piefed and Sublinks. I’ve done a lot with Python and Java… Maybe at some point I’ll find the time to contribute more than the bit of PR review I’ve done for Sublinks.
I’m also watching mastodon, particularly because they’re working on groups… And I don’t mind the Twitter style, I’ve just come to prefer following topics over people… And hashtags just get flooded with low effort crap.
That’s nice! ☺️
I feel like ActivityPub implemented federation in a really weird way, and that’s what causes problems like @[email protected] is reporting, or the issue that Blaze is addressing through multi-accounting. Perhaps we shouldn’t be sharing content across instances but only credentials.
For example. If you’re registered to instance A, and B federates with A, then B would let you post from your A account as if you were registered to B. Then let the retrieval of the content of different instances up to the front-end, instead of mirroring it.
No, the whole point for the federation is to share the content. For one, it allows redundancy so that if a rogue mod or admin decided to delete a bunch of stuff, then every other instance still retains copies of what came from it.
But that said, having to keep everything up to the second, in batches of a single action, is extremely limiting. If I downvote someone with an accidental button press, then undownvote them, then upvote - that could have been just one net interaction to send, but instead it is three.
Redundancy is better handled through specialised mirrors, similar in spirit to reveddit. That would be even more transparent than the current system - as the mirrors could translate actions like content removal into content highlighting, so it would stick out like a sore thumb*. This would also throw the burden associated with redundancy (transmission, storage, removal of clearly illegal content) into a few machines, instead of the whole network.
I’m aware that it’s a weaker form of federation than the current one but, as long as the front-end handles simultaneous multi-account and merges the feeds of the instances that you’re registered to, it’s already addressing the main needs:
- users can see content from multiple places without registering individually to each
- users don’t need to see what they don’t want to
- content is still spread out, so no instance controls the whole
- admins still have control over who accesses their own instance (through defederation + banning).
*currently you can only find a piece of removed content if you know that it exists.
At a wild guess, it could literally be the communism?
No really, I’m serious: what you are describing sounds to me like there is a sense of “ownership”, as in an instance owns a community, whereupon everything else is lesser than the owner with respect to that particular content - e.g. the others “mirror” the content that is “owned” by the instance that the community is on. A master/slave relationship, in computer science terminology.
In contrast, ActivityPub sounds to me (caveat: I’ve never read the source) like everyone is equal, hence why every action is shared equally by all. A distributed burden. Except without the major traditional benefits of it being distributed - i.e. Aussie.Zone cannot simply connect to some other server instance with less physical distance between it and Lemmy.World, no it must go straight to the source, even when that results in a 7-day delay (and even that cutoff is only because things older than that simply get deleted).
On the other hand, there’s nothing stopping someone from not respecting the deletion requests, and instead highlighting that content, in the current Lemmy framework. It would definitely be a deviation from the standard codebase though. And therefore every time there’s an update or patch, there would have to be a merge event to keep that feature functional.
I wonder if the reason your idea is not done is bc it relies too much on “trusting” the client for security reasons? Although… tbf I’m not certain how much that would differ from how things are now.
I’m not sure if the analogy with communism holds well, as communism implies post-scarcity. Perhaps socialism - if you see the current AP protocol as the Soviet economy from 1918 to 22, my proposal is basically a Lenin style New Economic Policy: a step back (less federation) to take two steps forward later (federation growth).
As for the mirrors, secondary (as in backup) would be a good analogy; their main reason to exist would be to make admins+mods accountable. (“Why did you remove [content]? It’s within the rules, even if you disagree with it!”). And ideally it should be possible for a single mirror to work for multiple instances, specially smaller ones. In the meantime, the actual (non-mirror) instances would be on equal grounds.
In contrast, ActivityPub […]
As far as I know, as someone who didn’t read the source either, that’s accurate. aussie.zone is basically mirroring the content of federated instances, to service its users, then when some aussie.zone user posts something there the other instances mirror it.
On the other hand, there’s nothing stopping someone from not respecting the deletion requests, and instead highlighting that content, in the current Lemmy framework. It would definitely be a deviation from the standard codebase though. And therefore every time there’s an update or patch, there would have to be a merge event to keep that feature functional.
In theory, there isn’t. In practice:
- AFAIK this is not something that Lemmy or Mastodon were coded for. It’s unsupported so the person doing it would need to maintain their own fork of the relevant software.
- This becomes specially problematic once users from the non-deleting instance interact with content that, for other instances, has been deleted.
I wonder if the reason your idea is not done is bc it relies too much on “trusting” the client for security reasons? Although… tbf I’m not certain how much that would differ from how things are now.
If I had to take a guess, the reason why W3C, Lemmer-Webber and Prodromou created the AP the current way is because, while you’re raising a baby, you never know the growing pains that it’ll have as a teen.
Ease discovery of federated communities has been funded: https://join-lemmy.org/news/2024-09-11_-_New_NLnet_funding_for_Lemmy
Also, thank you for the comment above
Ease discovery of federated communities has been funded: https://join-lemmy.org/news/2024-09-11_-_New_NLnet_funding_for_Lemmy
That’s some great news! It’s great to see that the issues are being ironed out.
EDIT WOW THANKS FOR LE GOLD TO LE KNEE KIND STRANGER!
Giving me fucking flashbacks
lemmyworld in many ways is still just reddit. don’t get me wrong, I’ve talked to plenty of cool people on there before. but it is the biggest instance that ballooned after the API controversy and a lot of them seem to have just brought Reddit to the fediverse with them. I have no issues with any mods there, I’ve not really seen them at all. they did defed a community from my instance though so that’s pretty lame of them.
I beg to differ: even Reddit these days is little like Reddit, as it was just prior to the protests. Reddit f-ing died, and Lemmy.World is nothing like that shithole, especially what’s left nowadays with bots copying bots speaking to bots, allowing humans to simply scroll forever.
To any extent that it is like the Reddit of old though, yeah it’s just bc it’s so big. It was guaranteed that some instance would become that, bc people are people - at least here, not like AI-Reddit. 🤡
t’s just bc it’s so big
It’s not the World is big…
It’s just everyone else is so small.
Like in the grand scheme of the fediverse we’re all tiny. But of the “reddit clone” instances it might be bigger than everyone else put together even.
I went over to your instance and checked, and yeah, it’s a reddit clone interface too
The structure makes all of us “like reddit” because reddit has always had a shit ton of different small subs with vastly different vibes. A decade ago there was some sub on Reddit that had the exact same vibe your instance has today. That’s just how big reddit was.
Federation just means no one group of admins can seize control, even if World went to shit tomorrow, everyone would just bounce. I have zero “loyalty” to my instance, if it starts to suck I’m out.
That’s the point of this whole thing.
I just counted some of this in another comment here on this thread “they” being Lemmy.world:
they are definitely the largest by a wide margin! According to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, they have >5-fold active users than anyone else. I presume that’s monthly. The next largest instance, is lemmynsfw.com, followed by Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ml, etc. but each of those with 2-3k users compared to lemmy.world’s 17.2k. So the latter is bigger than many others (if not quite all of them) combined.
Also, due to how “packets” of data are sent, many smaller instances (like Aussie.zone) have like 7-day delays getting all the data from Lemmy.world, sent at a rate of no more than one action per second (a future Lemmy software update should help with this substantially). I’m not kidding about any of this btw - see e.g. discussion at https://feddit.org/post/3524876.
Edit: I just realized I didn’t respond to your "reddit clone” part. Honestly, unless you start talking like Mbin or Piefed or something, that’s just Lemmy. I cannot really think of a single counterexample, not really - we all are on “link aggregators”, and most of us further are on “general purpose” ones. For that one I can at least think of several counterexamples: as you mentioned, some instances such as programming.dev, StarTrek.website, mander.xyz, aussie.zone, lemmy.ca - all those have a “theme”, but those too still allow general purpose usage, and still are forum-like. Then again, they can each have multiple communities, like mander.xyz is science but there are many individual communities underneath that heading. Which is a bit different from Reddit, having only just “subs”?
Also, people on mander.xyz could block everyone from let’s say lemmy.ml and/or lemmy.world, if they wanted to. Reddit definitely did not allow that - if you wanted to make a block list, then you had to do it the old fashioned way, one by one!:-)
Not even close.
I don’t hate LW, I even regularly post to a few LW communities. The sysadmins do a good job. There are a few debatable moderation decisions, but those are usually documented on [email protected]
The main issues I have with it is
- centralization of communities coupled with the current federation implementation creating 7-days delay for instance like aussie.zone (see [email protected] for a meme and discussion on that topic)
- their communities being the default means they can take controversial decisions and impact a topic for everyone until an alternative community emerges. See all the debates with the Media Bias Fact Checker bot, which in the end got removed from [email protected] ([email protected] for an alternative) but apparently it still on [email protected]
- another consequence of centralization is impact of their being unavailable. People here might remember August 2023 when LW was under consistent DDoS attack, it was barely usable. This prevented a third of Lemmy total users to use Lemmy. Should they face a similar issue in the future, most of the Lemmy communities would be unusable.
Another point I haven’t seen mentioned is that they are still federated with Threads: https://fedipact.veganism.social/
They are the last large instance which still is.
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I have nothing against the wolders but the admins of that instance raise more than a few eyebrows. Particularly when they rolled back specific anti hate speech policies in favor of vague common sense ones to stay ahead of the anti-woke crowd.
Kind of feels like they have been trying to take over Lemmy. Which… Could be a lot worse but still rubs me the wrong way.
So far my only beef with the .world admins was their VPN policy. I don’t have any better suggestions, but I still feel it was the wrong choice.
I just learned about the vpn thing a few days ago and its annoying.
we have a VPN policy?
Sadly spammers are to blame here.
Because the pedantic shit that the socialist get away with in .ml, Hexbear, and Lemmygrad doesn’t fly here. And because of this, they accuse .World of bias while completely ignoring the fact that their own instances ban people for simply being “liberal.”
Yes, exactly, except the .ml and Hexbear communities aren’t really socialist, it’s just a facade for their authoritarian propaganda.
Sure, there are some actual communists/socialists there, but they’re the minority.
I got into an argument with some hexbear users on their instance. Curiously despite all my comments going against the hexbear consensus the only ones that got deleted were the ones that called out another user for using a pay to see documentary. I ironically said something along the lines of “nothing says socialism like paying for propaganda” and then had that comment quickly deleted. My crackpot unproven theory is that the moderators of that instance are deliberately trying to sell information (propaganda) to impressionable leftists to make a quick buck.
Interesting, do you have a link to that thread?
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/7d794ec6-ee59-407c-8988-41ad4cdb8ab5.jpeg
On revisiting the instance was .ml not hexbear oops there’s the first hole in my theory XD
CW: Korean war, Vietnam war
Here’s the comment that my reply got deleted to https://hexbear.net/comment/5439961
**I’m not 100% sure this is the right one since all my replies got deleted, I remember clicking a link and being taken to a purchase page but I might’ve googled it and found it that way.
Thanks!
Drag is an anarchist and doesn’t much like liberal LW or authoritarian ML.
No.
Some of the dumbest and most aggressive comments I’ve seen on Lemmy came from lemmy.world. Most comments on it seem OK, but it does have a reddit-like flavour with a good number of unpleasant users.
hits you in the head with a steel chair like in pro-wrestling
C’mon. Lemmy.World users aren’t aggressive!!! That’s a misconception!
throws salt in your eyes
In fairness, you in particular have lost your mind! (And I for one am glad to not be the only one!:-)
I am really somewhat surprised to hear that honestly. After Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, the worst extremes I see by far come from lemmy.ml. Sort of a “when I see trolling this bad, then >90% of the time it is lemmy.ml”.
After that, yeah, lemmy.world has the largest absolute number of trolls on the Fediverse - you kinda expect some from any large instance, and they are definitely the largest by a wide margin! According to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, they have >5-fold active users than anyone else. I presume that’s monthly. The next largest instance, is lemmynsfw.com, followed by Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ml, etc. but each of those with 2-3k users compared to lemmy.world’s 17.2k. So the latter is bigger than many others (if not quite all of them) combined.
Trolls from lemmy.world I block individually, but lemmy.ml got so frustrating for me that I blocked the entire instance. I do not regret that in the slightest. It was that or quit Lemmy altogether. Lemmy.world though seems… “manageable”, i.e. not every person from it is worthwhile to talk to, but enough are that it’s worth blocking only the trolls while keeping the rest, imho.
Many of the .ml and Hexbear trolls have .world accounts as well
Yup. And if instances started defederating from lemmy.ml but not from lemmy.world, then even more accounts on the latter would be created as well. They - as they have continuously stated, publicly - really have zero interest in leaving people alone who simply don’t want to hear their shit.
Though the ones with Lemmy.world accounts cannot read posts on hexbear.net directly, so that’s a bit of a barrier.
What’s wrong with punching nazis?
Was expecting this comment, I used to be a pacifist, after asking why people would* punch nazis in asklemmy, I read a few books they reccomended and I changed my mind.
tldr: nothing.
edit: * if it is morally correct
That’s a pretty big fucking asterisk. That makes all the difference in the world.
yeah lol, I kinda mean both at the same time so ill leave it like that.
It doesn’t do as much damage as biting them
Not a god damned thing!
It doesn’t happen enough?
I’d say the biggest criticism is that it’s the largest instance, and is also a “general purpose” instance, which sort of takes away from the main goal of the fediverse. When 90% of content comes from one instance, it opposes the goal of decentralization.
I chose lemdro.id because it’s nice and fast, the admins are very good, and its main topic is around technology/software which I like
I don’t think the existence of large instances is in itself strictly antithetical to decentralization. The network effect makes them inevitable.
The power in the fediverse is everyone has a standard toolset to interact with the entire fediverse. Most people won’t, and that’s okay. The important thing is that, should larger communities become too oppresive as they gentrify, replacing them is a cheap decision, as you and everyone like-minded with you can squad up and leave at any time and lose nothing as the standard tooling of the platform facilitates that migration. You have mobility in the fediverse, and that permits choice to those who seek it.
This will stop being true once the larger instances start augmenting their experiences with proprietary nonsense. Features that only work there, that you can invest into and become dependant on, that you’d have to give up if you leave.
The day that happens will be the day that chunk of the Fediverse dies. Or, well, it won’t die, it will probably flourish and do very well. But it won’t be the Fediverse anymore. It will just be another knee-high-fence-gated community, that happens to run on Fediverse tech.
I’m on db0 and we have lots of subs aren’t on .world. So it possible but you are right in general.
Thank you for your work on Photon!
.world runs into issues because it’s overwhelmingly liberal and the mods are anti-Marxist on a platform built by Communists and dominated by leftists in general. They also defederated from the major Marxist instances. Lemmy.world is largely a replication of Reddit as well, so people leaving Reddit also don’t necessarily want that either.
It’s also by far the largest instance, not necessarily in a good way. It tends to dominate the fediverse and thus their mods and admins have an outsized voice, even if federation helps combat that issue.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world, you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
Communists? Really? There is quite a gap between being leftist (which in itself is a term that generalizes multiple ideological position and political views. Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw). Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but are you from the US? I ask because I often see US citizen use this overgeneralization and seem lack knowledge on the difference between e.g. socialism and communism.
Lemmy’s two main developers are communists so it’s a “platform built by Communists” just like @[email protected] said.
I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I’ve read over 2 dozen books on Marxism, you can check my comment history if you want. The lead developers of Lemmy are Communists.
Also, the Nordics are Social Democracies, not Socialist.
Sorry for the confusion regarding socialist and social democracies. Will have to look more into the difference between the two. Thanks for clearing that up.
No worries!
Essentially, Social Democracy is a Capitalist system with larger social safety nets, usually as a concession to prevent revolution. Marxist criticism of Social Democracy is that the Nordics, for example, fund their safety nets via brutal exploitation of the global south, and see sliding worker protections and eroding safety nets, because the bourgeoisie is still in control.
Socialism is, generally, a transitional state to Communism. Socialism is categorized by public ownership and central planning of industry as the primary mechanism of the economy (in Marxist terms, there are other forms of socialized production that aren’t marxist, like cooperatives). Examples of Actually Existing Socialist (AES) states include the PRC, USSR (pre-dissolution, obviously), Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc.
Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw
Western bloc countries purged their governments of explicitly communist parties back in the 50s and 60s, during the hottest years of the Cold War. The parties that formed in their wake had many of the same ideological inclinations operating under different monikers. So you’ve got Red–Green Alliance and more left-leaning voices in the Social Democrats talking about public housing and land reform and a worker-lead democracy, just like explicit Communists in Cuba and Vietnam and South Africa and Korea and India were seventy years ago.
Similarly, “conservative” parties organized under UKIP, National Front, FDL, or the AfD espousing all the same racist, ultra-nationalist, imperial expansionist views common to 1930s European fascists. None of this shit is new in the material sense. It’s just fresh paint on the old frame.
31·3 months agoI think there is like one party in Folketinget that is even slightly left, Enhedslisten.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world
It’s one of the easiest instances to join, thanks in no small part to the focus on growth over doctrinaire censorship. Consequently, a lot of people who don’t like .world end up joining it just to get access to the other more tightly administered communities.
you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
I suggested OP to do so yesterday, they did then removed their post, not sure why
They also defederated from the major Marxist instances.
From what I recall the issue was that users from those instances acted like weapons grade cunts and it was just easier to defederate from them rather than the admins and mods have to deal with all the issues that came with them. They didn’t block them simply because they’re Marxist instances.
They defederated from Hexbear “as a last resort-” before ever federating with Hexbear.
In the Lemmygrad defederation thread, there’s unsupported claims of hate speech and calls to violence, which we have to fill in the blanks - the mods are anti-Marxist and anti-revolution, so any Marxist instance is going to fail that test.
The Hexbear defederation thread is somehow worse when they list why instead of leaving it to the imagination. Read some of the top comments, it’s clear that it was anti-Socialist in motive. Real spooky scary zingers listed as evidence in the post like “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.” This statement is 100% obvious to anyone not stanning the US Empire.
Another example listed is “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.” Yet again, they are defederated for being Marxists, and therefore being revolutionary. This is just because they are authentically Marxist, not because posters were mean.
The mods of Lemmy.world are Liberals. Not just any liberals, but “true believers.” Marxism is dangerous to them and so they shut it out, they spelled it out plainly.
Also, just thinking about it, but OP, you are posting this on a LW community, while people really disliking LW probably blocked the instance. You could maybe crosspost to [email protected] to get additional answers
Come on, don’t encourage people to use Lemmy.ml
I’m not, just pointing out that people actually upset with LW aren’t probably on the present community
deleted by creator
Thanks!
