Inspired by the recent c/AskLemmy question about Myanmar.
As a PRC-born ethnic Han-Chinese person who currently is a US Citizen and reside in the US, I’m curious on what people think of my former country.
Very interesting history and culture, plastered over with bland authoritarian turbo-capitalism that disguises itself as communism.
winnie the pooh
Oh Bother
Uyghur people in concentration camps while tourists invade their homes
There are vanishingly few tourists in Xinjiang. Indeed they won’t even give you a visa if you say you’re going there.
Massive cities with LED buildings, beautiful mountains with paved hiking trails all the way to the top and gondolas to get down, Long queues that are still orderly and move quickly, families eating large meals outside, friendly and very curious people.
I’ve spent a lot of time there. Compared to the west the cost of living is super cheap especially for all the options and amenities you get. Even in the hippest part of Chongqing I could rent an apartment 2x the size of my house for half the mortgage. If the US is headed towards a permanent authoritarian regime I would trade life here for over there. At least their dictator appreciates science and education.
I would trade life here for over there.
If you are white… maybe
Otherwise… it isn’t that pleasant…
A ruthlessly effective technocracy that has achieved very impressive outcomes for their citizens¹ while also being a cultural / societal system I never want to live in. For some reason super obsessed with outside appearances.
1:
From 1995 to 2025:
- GDP/c: 603 to 13973
- Literacy rates: 77% to 96%
- University graduates per year: 900K to 10M
- Life expectancy: 33 to 77
- Railway km: 54616 to 160000 (50000 high speed)
- Urbanization rate: 29% to 67%
etc.
I like the idea that these were your first impressions of China, as in you stepped off a plane, had one look around and thought “Wow, this place seems like a ruthlessly effective technocracy that has achieved very impressive outcomes for its citizens but it’s certainly a cultural-slash-societal system I never want to live in.”
I’ve been reading some terrible books because I enjoy listening to 372 pages we’ll never get back.
That reads exactly like a line in a few of those books.
University graduates
You forgot the Gaokao that’s 10x harder than the US SAT/ACT 💀
The internet has really fucked my brain, because the first thing that comes up in my head is an old meme of The Orange One (back when he hadn’t been president yet, and so was funny instead of scary) saying “CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA” (sorry)
AFTER that – Disney’s Mulan, and all the orientalist aesthetics that come with it (sorry²)
And AFTER that – Years of internet discourse trying to convince me that a growth in Chinese international power would be worse than the US holding that position alone, which I find EXTREMELY hard to believe as a third world citizen whose home nation has been fucked in the butthole by the Americans like seven different times in lived memory (NOT sorry)
Then AFTER that – The stories told by my one friend who lived there for a few months. To be honest they made China seem like a pretty cool place to live in. Or at the very least, a fun experience as an exchange student.
And AFTER all that – Bootleg video games. They are interesting!
Unfortunately, it’s trump squinting his eyes, and saying “China!” with a pause and a scowl. Rent free in my brain.
Second thing I guess is some bullshit where they were cracking down on Ramadan in a news article.
Third I suppose is the rich history and cultural tradition.
Authortarianism and censorship to the point where I can never return to my former homeland until that changes for the better. No worker’s rights. Human rights issues in the north and west in areas that weren’t part of China historically.
Possible conflict with Taiwan (if that happens than I’d be sent to the camps to die by orange cheeto, unless I leave).
1.4 billion people & had the One Child policy for the longest time.
Lots of enviornmental problems, air pollution (and apparently much of the country has really really hot heat indices in the summer, avg high of 40C and low of 30C already… no thanks).
Really difficult language to learn (tried to learn it back when I was in school, couldn’t really and basically forgot it all).
Chinese food, which i love.
Their authoritarian form of government which is definitely making me not want to ever visit China.
I am sure China is otherwise a wonderful country, I don’t have a negative opinion of Taiwan at all, but the PRC needs their Gorbachev to come to power and liberate them.
Gorbachev did not exactly liberate them, not the Russian SFSR part of it… gestures at putin
That was the fault of the people who were in power after Gorbachev…
Gorbachev chose Putin himself.
A decade out. Yeltsin chose him.
You’re correct.
Thiefs, low quality, dictatorship, murders, will probably try to fuck up my life in the future.
Dude that is the USA. They do have knife guys occasionally but nothing is as terrifying as being a US grade student with an active shooter warning on campus. Besides Japan I’ve never felt safer that over there.
Do you folk have any other talking points than “but USA bad”? This question is not about USA, it’s about fucking China.
You sure nothing’s as terrifying? I think being an Uyghur in a Chinese concentration camp might be even worse.
Well I can’t speak from a Chinese/Uyghur perspective, only from what I know and have seen. I doubt you will find many Chinese residents that would say China is more dangerous than the US. A more divided opinion here for sure. The data proves it, in total murders and per capita. I’ve been all over their cities at all times of night and would not do that here, especially in the city I live in now. The things you are saying that is bad about China I think is worse here. I don’t think any Chinese resident is worried about getting shot while driving down the highway and I’ve lived thru those periods here, in the places it was happening. Just doing a direct comparison. If you’ve visited China I would find it hard to believe you would find it more dangerous.
No, it probably isn’t more dangerous in the direct sense. But it’s more dangerous in the subtler ways. Look, I’m from a country where we had the Soviet bland of dictatorship disguised as communism and let me tell you it’s very similar to the Chinese bland.
You have to censor your opinions because you might end up in prison for saying the wrong thing to the wrong people. And the worst thing, you don’t know what you’re missing because the government and its secret police tries really hard to make sure you don’t know how much better it is.
I believe that you had a superb time as a tourist in China, after all they only show you the good parts as a tourist. You’re simply not allowed anywhere that might shed light on their propaganda.
I’m not saying US is some kind of utopia or whatever, but pretending China is a good country to live in is crazy and dangerous.
I lived there for 2 years. I’m familiar with the propaganda. It was easy for me to ignore since I wasn’t going to be a permanent resident.
I see the same propaganda here. its gotten us in multiple unwinnable wars and is now stripping away our democracy. It’s why we have terrible, expensive healthcare and why gun related deaths are the #1 killer of children. Neither place is utopia. But now I get to worry about my country deporting naturalized citizens which is a thing I never thought I needed to worry about.
Order. Conformity. Mystery. Impenetrable language. Impossible writing. Eating anything that moves. Mindless nationalism. People who don’t talk or even care about politics. Depressed single young people obsessed with shopping. Security cameras. Police. Airport-sized train stations. Electric scooters. Electric cars. Utopian-dystopian sci-fi.
Yes, I have been there multiple times.
PS: to be clear, I was very, very impressed by those trains and especially by the electrification of city transport. In Shenzhen the air is now cleaner than any big city in the West and with all the greenery and silence it really does have a utopian feel. The progress there is genuine, it’s amazing, it deserves lots and lots of credit.
Impossible writing.
Native Chinese speakers often forget how to write after they finish school. Especially exacerbated by technology. All you need to known is Pinyin.
Eating anything that moves.
My grandmother told me a joke, roughly translates to: “anything with 4 legs and with the back facing the sky, with the exception of a table, is food”. I mean… there were famines, so you can’t judge with western lens. You gotta eat whatever to survive.
People who don’t talk or even care about politics.
Its honestly the same with Americans. (to a lesser extent)
When I was in Highschool (in the US). Nobody in my classes seemed to be interested in voting. 🤦♂️
Depressed single young people obsessed with shopping.
Huh? I mean, I left when I was a kid so idk what this is, I never heard of this “obsessed with shopping” thing.
My family would say “the only thing on the 12 zodiac we don’t eat is the dragon only because it doesn’t exist.”
Technology city of Shenzhen, mountain range, great wall, Mulan, winnie the pooh, three kingdom, wuxia story, and mala peppercorn.
Ohh and it’s my ancestral land.
Overall amazing history and culture. Government is authoritarian worse than the current US. The Chinese people are smart and kind and very innovative overall. But among billions there is also a lot of fraud and copying.
Give it 6 months and the current US will be more authoritarian.
Rude, impolite and loud people. But not all Chinese people are like that. But the ones that are stand out the most.
Rude, impolite and loud people.
Bruh…
Did you meet a rich / middle-class tourist that acts entitled? Because like… that’s not really the reality. Most ethnic Chinese people actually act very polite in front of other people (at least that’s the case with my parents and relatives), since this is a “face” thing. Its behind closed doors that they start to drop the act and just be like: “Why are you so fat” (my mom literally said that to me lol). But like… Rude? In Public? 🤔
Cut you in the line like you dont exist. Try to force their way in the queue. Shout to their friends right next to your ears. Bump their luggage in your knee/feet/ankle. Stop in the middle of the road or in front of the elevators. Clip nails in public transport. Burp and fart in restaurant without a word. Drop trash on the floor. Spit in the street… you name it, I’ve seen it all.
And again, like all generalities, it doesn’t make much sense. I know not all Chinese people are like that. Especially your mom lol.
Cut you in the line like you dont exist. Try to force their way in the queue.
I’ve spent a lot of time in NYC and Philly Chinatown areas and almost never see this. I think the one time that someone tried everyone else in line (including ethnic Chinese people) called them out for it and they just went to the back of the line.
Stop in the middle of the road or in front of the elevators.
To be fair, I was in highschool (in the US) and kids of every ethnicity would also stand in the middle of the hallway usually in their little groups and chatting and blocking everyone from getting to their classes on time.
Burp and fart in restaurant without a word.
They don’t want to ackowledge it because it “loses face”.
Drop trash on the floor.
Not unique to Chinese people.
Go to any major city and you see this a lot.
Spit in the street
Oh yea this is annoying. I have someone who live on my block who is a first-generation immigrant, i’m not sure if from Mainland China or Taiwan or HK, but either way, they keep spitting like every day… Ugh 🤮
But I also see this from both white people and black people, not exactly a unique trait.
