cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22332949
JD Vance said that ‘American power comes with certain strings attached’
God I hate Earth.
Earth is lovely, it’s humanity I struggle with.
Humanity is lovely, it’s politicians I struggle with.
The orange dickhead is not yet at his new place, but the asshole followers are already raging :(
Please tell me the whole world isn’t going to suck his balls like last time
I’m hoping my State doesn’t suck his balls like last time.
my state is already sucking his balls like last time :(
Ah, I’m sorry. Hang in there.
We should really start to believe them when they say these things, and prepare accordingly.
The “it can’t happen here” mentality is so ingrained, that I feel like even many of the people who know that it is bullshit, still aren’t fully comprehending what is coming. Which I get, because it’s hard to comprehend. But boy is it frustrating.
Imagine caping for that fuckin’ lizard. Couldn’t be me.
How fascist of him
The government using it’s power in the service of corporations
What a coincidence that Elon Musk paid 100+ million for their campaign
Americans taking some inspiration from WeChat.
Not too long ago, this would be a career-ending display of corruption.
Yup.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the goalposts for norms have significantly shifted in the last decade. This is historically how it always begins.
Buckle up. Protect yourself.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure and has a large presence on the platform himself.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure, (soon) influences the legislative rules and has a large presence on the platform himself.
Doesn’t he know that NATO profit US the most?
Oh that would go over well. Seems like they don’t understand what NATO actually is
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
Let’s not pretend like X is their reason. Supporting autocracy is their reason, and now they’re trying to come up with excuses to get the public onboard.
Yes, but they need to repay the rat elon for all his support during the campaign. This might even be true
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
NATO is a terrorist organization led by USA. If any USA rulers want to disband it would be only to com up with a bigger and more evil organization.
You wanting the same thing JD Vance wants should trigger a warning in your brain before you say anything else.
I said that NATO is a terrorist organization not that i want something
I like how you say this and your instance is “sh. It just works”
what about it?
So, NATO had a problematic operation, trying to establish (and coordinate the establishment of) guerilla stay-behind troops to use in the event of Soviet takeover - and the operation went especially problematic in Italy during the Years of Lead, where some of those guys associated with right-wing terrorists. The year was 1969 or so.
Basing on this, how do I conclude anything about the NATO of today?
Disclaimer: I was asked to hold an anti NATO speech during a protest event during a NATO summit. Being a moderately honest anarchist, I held a speech denouncing the practises seen in Afghanistan (the year was 2012), but emphasized that collective self defense is a valuable thing to have (a common attitude here in Eastern Europe), and added that if the alliance would bother doing what it says on the sticker, I would support it.
NATO is an alliance of various countries. Some of them aren’t nice or democratic (classic example: Turkey). Mixed bag, and constantly changing. Membership in NATO is not a letter of indulgence for a member state to do anything - allies are obliged to help only if someone attacks a member state. If a NATO member attacks someone else, allies can ignore the affair or even oppose the member (example: Turkey recently bombed Kurdish troops in Syria so sloppily that threatened US troops shot down a Turkish drone).
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“According to several Western European researchers, the operation involved the use of assassination, psychological warfare, and false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries, and even went so far as to support anti-communist militias and right-wing terrorism as they tortured communists and assassinated them, such as Eduardo Mondlane in 1969”
Based on this conclude what you want about the NATO of today.
As if the US and a whole lot other countries are not doing Psy-Ops and other behind the scenes actions. pulling strings on the world stage.
Based on this, I conclude: the NATO of today is a mostly defensive alliance with some taints in its history.
It is currently very busy doing a real job - opposing a conquering dictator named Vladimir Putin.
I wish it luck, as long as it sticks to its declared purpose. If it oversteps, I will revise my opinion.
taints in its history
Ooh, let’s play “find the dark history”! What better way to distract from today’s issues and avoid talking about solutions for tomorrow’s problem!
This is me agreeing with you, to be clear. The description “taints in its history” is so ubiquitous as to be useless. Yes, acknowledging the errors of the past is important to learn from them and improve, but the focus needs to be on that learning and improving.
The NATO has potential to be a force of security. In a modern world, conflict between peers is more destructive than ever and the returns on aggressive action are more strongly affected by the strength of the defense, such a union of forces can discourage attack by making it too unprofitable.
Of course, that requires the union to actually stand united and the potential aggressor to be reasonable and motivated by the state’s prosperity. Neither of those seem entirely guaranteed right now…
Your opinions are certainly grounded in reality at least. It’s refreshing to read something sensible for a change.
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said a guy living under nato umbrella 🤡
How is that coffee in your posh good? living large?
It is currently very busy doing a real job
Yes i’m sure they are doing a very busy job like they were in their tainted history (false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries)
If it oversteps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Response
“Several of the operations were along the coast in the borders between sea and land, and together with roads and populated areas. Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.”
If you are sure about something, then bring evidence of considerable off-label activities.
In response to your response about “Nordic Response”:
Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.”
Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?
An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, you’d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesn’t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesn’t learn how to deter those, they’re fools.
How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. There’s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the “saboteurs”, good. If the red team “blew up” all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they don’t practise, they don’t get to think hard.
Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?
Where do i find a fault in conducting vehicle inspections and riot control at peace time, from an organization with a shady past involving false flag operations, psychological warfare and assassinations aimed at delegitimize left-wing parties.
Dunno buddy let me keep thinking
An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, you’d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesn’t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesn’t learn how to deter those, they’re fools.
The ukrainian military also have checkpoints in the west border to make sure any male between 18 and 60 doesn’t leave the country so that they can be forced into war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine
How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. There’s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the “saboteurs”, good. If the red team “blew up” all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they don’t practise, they don’t get to think hard.
To me this sound like military rhetoric coming from a military man. You self defined yourself as being a moderately honest anarchist, i suggest you to keep doing your anarchist readings and re-read the works of Emma Goldman and Errico Malatesta.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter
Yeah dude! Tell them! Also tell them what was the normal operations at the time! And what are Russia and China doing today!!!
I believe I speak for all of us Europeans when I say he can go fuck himself while sucking off Elon’s micropenis.
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So, the US wants to lose the only influence it actually has on Europe?
I say go for it.
40k Us troops to stationed in Germany alone to defend Europe from Russia who is slaughtering ukrianians… Instead of you know…
Sure US has no influence…
How do you think it costs US taxpyer?
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After war in urkaine started why did germany authorize +7k surge?
Asking for a friend…
So much cope and denial in this thread haha
pathetic
Oh nooooooo! The poor tax payer helping secure the planet he lives on. How tragic!
Must be nice being a German when Americans pays for your shit.
Fucking parasites.
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solid understanding how european security works right here ;)
Yeah because a magic border makes it so that things don’t affect all of us. Isn’t that wonderful?
I legit don’t understand how anyone can think so small.
If a fire starts in a city where everyone has your attitude, how long before it all burns down?
Whether we like it or not, borders aren’t magical lines that protect us from the damage done behind one of those lines. Humanity is responsible for the wellbeing of humanity. No silly little line is going to change that.
Imagine the consequences we’d still be suffering (yes, we. All of us) if the US hadn’t joined in WWII.
I honestly don’t understand how anyone can think of their fellow humans as parasites. We’re all in this together. One big ego with enough support can destroy all of our lives and throw us back into the dark ages.
We have thousands of years of history to guide us. Look into it.
Sure, but it’s not the US’s job to protect the world. I’m a US citizen, and I’m not a fan of us spending ~5x vs Germany on defense, especially when Germany is such an economic powerhouse in the EU.
I would really like to cut defense spending, but for that to happen, other NATO countries need to increase their defense spending. I absolutely think we should stay in NATO (for the reasons you stated), but NATO is supposed to be an alliance, not a set of countries protected by the US. Yes, it’s in our interest to protect the EU, but it’s also in the EU’s interest to protect the US. We should have each other’s back.
No, they don’t. The US military spending far outpaces any other country. The US spends more than the next 10 countries combined! You don’t “need” that much spending, but your GDP is happy for that extra trillion every year that some day will trickle down for sure wink wink.
In summary, your rhetoric is pure propaganda of conservative talking points, unfortunately.
It’s really not.
While I agree we need to drastically reduce military spending, that decision has consequences. We’d need to shut down foreign bases, reduce naval presence around the globe, and increase our reliance on reserves instead of standing military. If we do that, that’ll embolden other countries (like China, Iran, and Russia) to fill that void unless other partners step up.
Military spending (and deficit spending in general) is a major issue I’m concerned about, and I’m unhappy with both major parties here. I like Trump’s pressure on the EU to step up their part, but I don’t like his increases to military spending. I like Biden’s and Harris focus on social programs instead of military spending, but I don’t like their lack of cuts. Neither party is actually interested in turning swords into plow shears, they just court the military industrial complex differently.
We need to increase taxes and cut spending, yet both parties seem to do the opposite.
The US WANTS to be in those bases because it gives them a lot of soft power in foreign relationships, and a base to project power in the part of the world.
If the US gives up NATO, you can also kiss goodbye to any sort of influence on the European countries decision making, as well as any resemblance of military logistic in that part of the world (as well as any sales of military equipment to European countries as it’s starting to happen, with many countries investing in their own military industrial complexes). This is why in the past 50 years, regardless of the party, every single US president supported NATO regardless of spendings. It took a moron to say they want out
The US WANTS to be in those bases because it gives them a lot of soft power in foreign relationships
I’d say that military bases within European countries is the definition of projecting hard power. If 40 000 soldiers in a military base are called ‘soft power’, what’s hard power then? Nuking the city?
40k really isn’t that many, especially when it comes to war. That said, those bases can likely handle a lot higher population, which would rapidly increase in wartime.
